The Sell

[wicky]

Been perusing bike shops to admire the amazing new machinery and secretly wanting to get sold on a good deal. After chatting with a few staff members of these stores, I always hear comments such as:

"This thing climbs extremely well"
"This bike is incredibly fast"

I'm possibly downright naive but I'm the one powering this vehicle. There's no motor. It's immobile until two legs are fueling the thing.

Are these comments justified?

I get that the geometry of a bike may enable the rider to sit in a more aggressive position to get to higher speeds but these are mere tools to enable speed, or the ability to climb better..etc.

I think I'm just pedantic on the cycling lingo.

[HappyHumber]

I dont know if it's a queston of being justifiable. Think of it more of people just tryng to make a quick sale testing your will power when it comes to impulse purchses. They're using words and terms that are pretty subjective, even allowing for similar geometries and subtle fit differences. Its sounds like you have the right level of healthy skepticism wrt to the comments though.

As confusing as a lot of info can be on sizing, research a little bit into your most likely frame size and test ride a few. Punch a few of your basic body mwasurements into one of the online fitting tools to get a better ball park. Some of the poor quality shop staff have been known to on occasion sell poorly size matched bikes just to shift stock.

'Caveat emptor' and all that.

[g-boaf]

Been perusing bike shops to admire the amazing new machinery and secretly wanting to get sold on a good deal. After chatting with a few staff members of these stores, I always hear comments such as:

"This thing climbs extremely well"
"This bike is incredibly fast"

I'm possibly downright naive but I'm the one powering this vehicle. There's no motor. It's immobile until two legs are fueling the thing.

Are these comments justified?

I get that the geometry of a bike may enable the rider to sit in a more aggressive position to get to higher speeds but these are mere tools to enable speed, or the ability to climb better..etc.

I think I'm just pedantic on the cycling lingo.

Is the bike incredibly fast compared with its peers in the same category? Apart from that, the rest is your ability to suffer.

Any light bike is going to be useful for hills, provided the rider is also light and powerful.

[battler2]

I've been told "I did 100km/h on this bike just last week"

And this was coming from a seemingly respected LBS, and a seemingly respected rep who posts regularly in local forums.

They're now out of business.

[g-boaf]

I've been told "I did 100km/h on this bike just last week"

And this was coming from a seemingly respected LBS, and a seemingly respected rep who posts regularly in local forums.

They're now out of business.

Nothing particularly eye opening about that, on the right descent and with a fit, skilled rider, that is possible. For the ordinary punter though... The OP is pretty switched on by the sound of it.

[silentC]

Obviously there are aspects of frame geometry that will contribute to the rider's performance, but it's pretty marginal within a given performance range I would say. As far as climbing goes, in my limited experience, the overwhelming factor there is your power to weight ratio, of which the bike is three fifths of SFA. However when I move from my old Giant steelie to my new Merida, the stability and handling downhill are markedly better. So obviously the frame is a big factor in descending, even if a lot of people (like me) only realise it when they swap bikes.

More important to an older rider like me is that the 'endurance' geometry of the frame means I can stay on the bike for longer. I don't necessarily go faster but I can maintain it for longer too.

What does it all mean? A lot of what they say in shops is marketing BS that they are reciting from the sales brochure, but there is element of truth in some of it.

[HappyHumber]

Your average Joe Schmoe gets pretty wow'ed by numbers being thrown about. All part of the bedazzlement factor. I don't hold it against sales staff especially, but I admit it does prey on the less informed.

[outnabike]

Been perusing bike shops to admire the amazing new machinery and secretly wanting to get sold on a good deal. After chatting with a few staff members of these stores, I always hear comments such as:

"This thing climbs extremely well"
"This bike is incredibly fast"

.

Hi wicky,

"This thing climbs extremely well" pretty simple "easy to carry up stairs"

"This bike is incredibly fast" no probs "goes well down hill"
The rest is as you said the harder you pedal the better it goes.... Anyway that how my bike is....

[m@]

Cool, so we should all just buy Kmart bikes, because their performance is identical and all that matters is the rider. My bank balance thanks you sir.

[spider1974]

Could also be a good way to see what kind of riding someone is interested in...by making these comments you could guage what 'floats their boat'...of course it would probably be better to ask...but some customers don't know what riding they want to do....but hills, flat and fast...that could work

[AUbicycles]

"This thing climbs extremely well" - could have a short wheelbase meaning it is a good climber and responsible, for that you can lose some comfort in the long-distance department.

"This bike is incredibly fast" - could refer to the aerodynamic properties.


There are however two things to consider when listing to this. Firstly, how much is bull dust, comments to tell you want you want to hear, to reassure you.

Secondly, how much value will the bike attributes provide you. The more competitive and performance orientated you are, the more certain traits will matter. That said there are also diminishing returns. The more you spend, the less added performance benefit you will get.


A good counter question, if the bike climbs incredibly well... compared to what? Compared to a holland style stepover bike, your average steel, carbon or titanium road bike should climb better. But you want a comparison between different brands, or better different models of the same brand. For a road bike, brands may release a few different models such as:
- long distance comfort
- aerodynamic
- super light

So in this context, the super light would typically climb better than the long distance (weight, but also frame geometry). And the Aerodynamic will beat the long distance and super light bike.


Now you have to map it to the type of riding you or intend to do and ask what bike will give you the most satisfaction. (but if it was all marketing blah blah then of course this doesn't equate, so shop around).

[g-boaf]

Could also be a good way to see what kind of riding someone is interested in...by making these comments you could guage what 'floats their boat'...of course it would probably be better to ask...but some customers don't know what riding they want to do....but hills, flat and fast...that could work

That's possible too. The experienced riders will probably scoff at those comments.

[TMjpn]

When I jumped from a Cannondale Six to my Kuota KOM EVO frame, the first immediate thing I noticed was power transfer was much better because the frame was boxy and stiffer - although it was not much lighter. My next move from the KOM to a Scott Foil gave me no noticeable improvement stiffness was very similar and Aero is somewhat intangible for most people - but visually I was pleased

Now, when I ride the Foil to work opposed to my Polygon A5.0, I can notice a sluggishness out of the saddle on the Alloy Polygon on a flat sprint - but I am sure that is down to it's R501 wheels vs the FFWD F4's on the Foil. The other thing I can feel are all the bumps sapping me of energy faster due to being on an alloy bike with alloy interfaces.

So there are some significant differences between bikes that can make them 'faster' and give you a little more legs and thus are worth the sales spiel.. but in all honesty they are not big differences - its certainly not like jumping from a 250cc Sportsbike to a 1000cc sportsbike - which is what they sometimes make it out to be!

[softy]

This might explain some of the real world differences;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPhicVDq0Pg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzEhqx0sDY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Warning some language in this video.

[Derny Driver]

This might explain some of the real world differences;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPhicVDq0Pg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzEhqx0sDY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Warning some language in this video.

Says it all really.
Kinda debunks the Princess and the Pea fairy stories some people on here like to tell.

[macca33]

I'm with TMjpn to an extent - I had built a 2009 Giant Defy frameset for use at work on stayovers and whilst it was a nice, smooth ride (even in aluminium), I felt it wasn't quite as good as my CAAD10. I bought a NOS CAAD10 frame and changed the groupset, etc over from the Defy and it certainly was different. Now, I know the Defy and CAAD10 have different geometry, but that aside, the CAAD10 was quicker and more dynamic.

Earlier this year, I bought a Jamis Xenith Elite frameset - bike shop closedown sale - and swapped the gear from one of my CAAD10s onto it. Again, I have certainly felt a difference in the way the bike rides - particularly the transfer of power through the bottom bracket - the Jamis certainly jumps quicker than the CAAD10.

So, in my experience, there can be marked differences between frames, therefore bikes; however, I do not believe that the 'sales speak' that one bike will have you riding better than your ability could possibly allow, is helpful.

cheers