Hybrid upgrades

Ballmead
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Hybrid upgrades

Postby Ballmead » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:58 pm

I have recently bought a Cell Ultimo 1.0 which I ride exclusively on the M7 cycleway.(I live nearby)
The group set consists of the following : SR Suntour XCE triple crank 48/38/28 with Shimano MTB Acera 8 speed derailleurs on both ends and an 11-34T cassette.
It's a nice bike but I want to make the bike lighter/faster and more path/road suitable.
So far I have removed the stock 700 x 38c tyres and replaced them with Continental Ultra Sport II's in 700 x 28C.
I was also thinking of going to a 10 speed mainly Shimano 105 groupset (105 compact 50-34T crank, 105 derailleurs on both ends, Tiagra flatbar shifters and an Ultega 12-30 cassette/chain combo.
Now I can hear you all saying: "don't waste your money buy a new bike instead" but the missus won't hear of it as I only bought it a couple of months ago.
The parts however, I can buy and install myself over time without the missus noticing :P
So I suppose my question is: Will these road parts make the bike much lighter/faster or am I kidding myself?

mitzikatzi
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby mitzikatzi » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:39 pm

I see good cheap parts on Facebook pages often. So it could be done cheaply. Parts need to be chosen with care.
Bike will be a fraction lighter but I don't think you would notice a speed increase due to weight loss.
Nice components make a bike nicer to ride.
Rotating mass is where biggest gains are. Tyres you have done. Wheels might make a bit of a difference.
Your bike do as you wish.

softy
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby softy » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:43 pm

Seriously, just get a proper road bike.

i know your misses my chuck a sadie, but this would be the best option. You will spend a small fortune changing all that stuff.

Gumtree you can pick up some real bargains, keep the old bike and get a another one.

i sold a really good specced cervelo soloist with fulcum zero and near new sram force for 1200.

chriso_29er
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby chriso_29er » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:52 pm

I would say most of the weight is in the frame, wheels/hubs, bars and tyres.
You have already done tyres, I dont think doing the groupset will make a noticable difference to speed but (may) make it change gears even nicer.
Last edited by chriso_29er on Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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koshari
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby koshari » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:53 pm

I agree with mizi. Your not going yo get much quicker with a kilo less of weight. The 10 speed kit imo wont make you any quicker either. As for the suggestion of wheels. Prolly best advice rotating mass is where it is. With a second set of wheels you can have a lighter set configured with say 25mms tires and a closer spaced cassette (say 11-23) for riding on the flats. Then you can put the 38s back on with the 11-34 cassette for hillier runs with the option to get off the blacktop.

Going to any cassettes starting at 12 teeth with a 48 being the biggest ring on the front will loose you more gear inches that you may have been able to loose with say a compact 35/50. This means you would be spinning out at a lower speed.

Btw Hours on the bike is what will make you quicker.

Edit: softy speaks good advice. I have seen decent roadees going 2nd hand for less than 300 bucks if you are patient.
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find_bruce
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby find_bruce » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:55 pm

Been there, done that. My main commuter is a hybrid & the only things original are frame, bars, stem & seatpost clamp. The major change was disc brakes (new fork, hubs, brakes & shifters), otherwise it was a case of when bits wore out replacing them with higher spec - I commute 5 days a week at around 6-7k a year so I go through parts. The most obvious change was the crank - not from the weight savings but from the reduced q factor (how far apart the pedals are).

It's a good commuter but it is not and never will be as quick as my roadie.

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ekib
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby ekib » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:57 pm

I'm going to echo Softy's thoughts,

"Seriously, just get a proper road bike."

I commuted on a really old, slow hybrid for about 10 years, then bought a cheap roadie (Cell Lapa 2.0) last year. The difference was amazing, slow much faster for so much less effort, especially up hills :D

Ekib.
The End.

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TonyMax
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby TonyMax » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:22 pm

Offer old mate $400 for this:

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/blacktow ... 1100182420" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Thoglette
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby Thoglette » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:29 pm

Ballmead wrote:So I suppose my question is: Will these road parts make the bike much lighter/faster or am I kidding myself?
Unless you've shaved 5kg off and have a lot of hills you're not going to notice it. That 5kg is usually found above the saddle (at least in my case! :D )

You've already done the one sane thing - changing to more supple tyres. I'd probably have a good hard look at the bearings in the wheel set. Nothing that saps energy faster than overly tight bearings. Well, except dragging brakes :-)

The two things that really make you faster are a more aero position (including backpack instead of panniers) and your own fitness level.
find_bruce wrote:It's a good commuter but it is not and never will be as quick as my roadie.
But there's a reason (several thousand of them) why the roadie is not used for commuting. Plus I'd wager mudguards and racks.

N+1 still applies!
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

Ballmead
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby Ballmead » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:42 pm

Thanks for all the good advice.
I think I'm just going to have to upset the missus and buy a proper road bike. Wish me luck [FEARFUL FACE]

koshari
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby koshari » Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:14 pm

You could always say your buying it for her???
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Ballmead
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby Ballmead » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:43 am

Well the talk didn't go so well so it looks like it's back to plan 1 :(

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bychosis
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby bychosis » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:56 pm

Ballmead wrote:Well the talk didn't go so well so it looks like it's back to plan 1 :(
That's a shame. I've been thinking about upgrading my car, and looking for a good excuse. This morning my mechanic tells me the clutch is probably on the way out, $1200-$2400 on $5k car :D :D. You need to find a GOOD reason to upgrade, not just "I want to"

I'd second/third/fourth whatever and say wheels is probably the best bet for upgrades and drivetrain, while possibly making it lighter in reality wont make much difference. Perhaps try even lighter tyres. 25's and slick tread? Light wheels and discs are going to cost a fair bit so might rule that out too.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

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silentbutdeadly
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby silentbutdeadly » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:57 pm

Wheels will get you further down the road than anything else...not so much in terms of weight but in stiffness and therefore responsiveness.

A better driveline will drop weight but could make actually make things harder and besides some of that roadie gear you are eyeing off may not suit the frame given it appears to have some basic MTB components.

I have worked on an older Giant Cypress hybrid to the point that it now goes like snot for a hybrid bike but it'll never compete against a roadie...it just gives lazy ones a fright!
Ours is not to reason why...merely to point and giggle

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Duck!
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby Duck! » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:05 pm

There's the term "polishing a turd".... Yes it's harsh, but you're starting with a pretty low-spec heavy frame, so chucking slightly lighter running gear on won't make any appreciable difference, you'll still have a bike built around a heavy frame.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Thoglette
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby Thoglette » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 am

Duck! wrote:There's the term "polishing a turd".....
:-) but true.

With the risk of repeating myself - have a look at your riding position. See how far you can drop the bars & raise the seat.

The only "easy" place to get weight out of your bike would be replacing the triple with a single ring (or just dump the two unloved rings and leave it at that)

At the end of the day the bike doesn't know nor care what it looks like. Total weight only impacts climbing and acceleration. It's drag/friction that sets your top/cruise speed: If your favourite gear has a nice straight chainline, the main source of drag is you, and the main source of friction is wheel bearings and tyre flex.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

koshari
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby koshari » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:20 am

To go single ring front you really need to get a narrow/wide sprocket or you will need to leave the derailleur there with the min stop screwed up to keep the cage in the centre position. That or leave the shifter in play which sort of negates the weigh reduction aim.
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Ballmead
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby Ballmead » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:53 pm

After listening to all the good advice here I decided that the best course of action was to man up and tell the missus that I would be buying another bike.
She wasn't too happy but she got over it fairly quickly :)
Anyway I bought a Merida Ride 93 that I had been eyeing off on Gumtree for a few weeks now, I think I got it for the reasonable price of $450.
I'm not too sure what year model it is, so I was hoping someone here could set me straight; it's got a Tiagra 9 speed groupset if that helps?
Anyway here it is, I'm yet to take it out for a decent ride yet so that will have to wait until tomorrow morning.

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Last edited by Ballmead on Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

koshari
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby koshari » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:57 pm

Any reason its got big on big????

That aside i think you have made the correct decision. Compact crank and a medium range cassette will be forgiving on climbs yet fast enough on the flats.
Good that the missus didnt take it too badly is another bonus.
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Ballmead
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby Ballmead » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:38 pm

I was mucking around setting the limits etc. The gearing isn't too bad, 25t rear with a 34T front should be ok for most except the biggest of hills.

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trailgumby
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby trailgumby » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:29 pm

Great choice of bike and excellent price.. There are a few spacers on the steerer tube you can swap from below to above the stem to drop the bars. Say, one every few months as you get used to the riding position.

Seems to me the chain is a a link pair too long? That may mean you are prone to dropping the chain off the smaller ring on the front during downshifts. Lose the wheel reflectors and dork disc from behind the cassette, fit some clipless pedals and you'll look properly pro ;)


koshari
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby koshari » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:50 pm

Ballmead wrote:I was mucking around setting the limits etc. The gearing isn't too bad, 25t rear with a 34T front should be ok for most except the biggest of hills.
Absolutely, I run 34 onto 25 as well and did a little climb at an 11% grade directly into the teeth of a 30km/h wind this arvo and had to get out of the seat for about 20 seconds, all the other climbs I did in the seat.
Last edited by koshari on Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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silentbutdeadly
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby silentbutdeadly » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:51 pm

Excellent choice. You did very well. Very well.
Ours is not to reason why...merely to point and giggle

koshari
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby koshari » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:00 pm

now all you have to do is put the 38s back on the cell, a narrow/wide 34 on the front and convert it to a wide-range 1x10 Zee setup and you got an awesome 29er to compliment your new roadee for when you go off the bitchi :-)
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Duck!
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Re: Hybrid upgrades

Postby Duck! » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:21 pm

trailgumby wrote:
Seems to me the chain is a a link pair too long? That may mean you are prone to dropping the chain off the smaller ring on the front during downshifts.
Nup. There's room to fit a 28T sprocket if desired (just), and propensity for chain dropping is not at all related to chain length; it's all about FD tuning.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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