I'm looking at the Giant TCR and the Specialized Tarmac (amongst other bikes) and I've had the advice from the Specialized dealer to go for FACT 10R over a FACT 9R carbon frame over component levels. I haven't organised a test ride of either of these bikes yet but will soon, but I'm unsure if I'll realistically notice the difference between the carbon fibre levels and whether I'd be better off getting the better components now rather than the frame level. I guess the 10R may be 100g lighter and a bit stiffer.
Finding information online where people have actually compared 8R,9R,10R,11R, Giant Composite and Composite SL's to each other has proven to be extremely difficult. Generally I've seen the lower levels would be less stiff and potentially more comfortable? The higher levels might be more stiff AND more comfortable? How stiff is stiff enough or is it all about weight savings?
The bike will be primarily used for crit racing and potentially other group road riding. Will I notice a difference from a lower end carbon fibre and a step up? Does anyone know of an online resource where I could compare between manufacturers or does it all come down the butt dyno on a test ride? I mean even different tyres between bikes might effect how it feels on the test ride...
The Tarmac Comp/Elite seems pretty good value as the Giant's seem to crank up the price pretty quickly as the components go up a level into the "SL" range frames.
Comparing carbon levels? TCR vs Tarmac
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Re: Comparing carbon levels? TCR vs Tarmac
Postby Duck! » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:34 pm
You'll probably notice a greater difference between the two brands than between the different grades of carbon within each range.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Comparing carbon levels? TCR vs Tarmac
Postby AUbicycles » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:41 pm
The tangible difference is that the a 10R is about 100 grams lighter that the 9R. Specialized have their own grading system, FACT (Functional Advanced Composite Technology) which doesn't actually specify that a sole grade of carbon fiber is used on an entire frame - rather it is the entire carbon fiber 'kit' - the combination of different cuts carbon fiber sheet which form that layup.
The controlled strength, pliability, durability and performance of carbon fiber owes a lot to the layup and the selection of the right grade and weave for the right section.
It will be hard to find good comparisons reviews, though I know one of the German road magazines would often tests a lot of different models in their comparison tests and do lab testing measuring the details. I havn't seen that level of testing by any other publications. Beyond all of the numbers - different riders will also have individual preferences - some many prefer a more compliant frame and others prefer stiff. Added to the mix are the accessories, saddle, tyre and tyre pressure, wheels, handlebars, shoes.
The reality, as Duck suggests, is that you may not even perceive a difference, all things being equal. And any performance difference will typically be marginal as is the law of diminishing returns.
When you buy a bike, the rule of thumb has traditionally been to prioritise a better frame over better components as you can upgrade components later. In this day and age of consumerism, I have the feeling that keen cyclists tend to buy a new bike every few years. This would suggest that you may choose a better overall component set knowing that the frame differences are very subtle (if it is an identical frame).
I would try and ride each of the models, I am guessing the Specialized will have different specs for the 9R and 10R bikes. See if the Giant or Specialized feels better. And if you are not chasing a yellow jersey, a rainbow jersey or a gold medal, don't forget to follow your heart.
Cheers
Christopher
The controlled strength, pliability, durability and performance of carbon fiber owes a lot to the layup and the selection of the right grade and weave for the right section.
It will be hard to find good comparisons reviews, though I know one of the German road magazines would often tests a lot of different models in their comparison tests and do lab testing measuring the details. I havn't seen that level of testing by any other publications. Beyond all of the numbers - different riders will also have individual preferences - some many prefer a more compliant frame and others prefer stiff. Added to the mix are the accessories, saddle, tyre and tyre pressure, wheels, handlebars, shoes.
The reality, as Duck suggests, is that you may not even perceive a difference, all things being equal. And any performance difference will typically be marginal as is the law of diminishing returns.
When you buy a bike, the rule of thumb has traditionally been to prioritise a better frame over better components as you can upgrade components later. In this day and age of consumerism, I have the feeling that keen cyclists tend to buy a new bike every few years. This would suggest that you may choose a better overall component set knowing that the frame differences are very subtle (if it is an identical frame).
I would try and ride each of the models, I am guessing the Specialized will have different specs for the 9R and 10R bikes. See if the Giant or Specialized feels better. And if you are not chasing a yellow jersey, a rainbow jersey or a gold medal, don't forget to follow your heart.
Cheers
Christopher
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Re: Comparing carbon levels? TCR vs Tarmac
Postby dalai47 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:19 am
Tour magazine.AUbicycles wrote:It will be hard to find good comparisons reviews, though I know one of the German road magazines would often tests a lot of different models in their comparison tests and do lab testing measuring the details.
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Re: Comparing carbon levels? TCR vs Tarmac
Postby jerrah » Wed May 04, 2016 9:45 pm
Thank you for your excellent responses guys...AUbicycles wrote:I am guessing the Specialized will have different specs for the 9R and 10R bikes.
I had a S-Works on loan for a few days which isn't really going to answer the difference between 9R & 10R (being 11R) but the ride was very nice.
The 10R model has better components except the 9R model has Di2 and costs $500 less. I currently ride a bike with Di2 and I'd like to stay with it but the better frame and other components has me stuck in the middle. I'm guessing Di2 is generally undesirable in the low-mid priced "racing" type frames because Giant has no Di2 until you get to the high end frames and Specialized has one lower end model with Di2 that has a lower spec frame then nothing until the S-works high end.
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