Article - Tale of Two Bells - Counterfeiters

[djw47]

Whilst I have sympathy for anybody who invests time and money in something and then loses out, you'd have to question the sense of selling a bell for so much in the first place. If it was a couple of bucks more with the nicer materials etc then they could maybe justify the price but when it's that much more, it's really difficult for an average purchaser to justify the purchase. At the end of the day, it's a bell, something that most people spending big bucks on a bike don't actually want anyway.

Typical Aussie response - blame the victim. Serves him right for wanting a good return on his effort to design a quality product and bring it to market.

There's wanting a good return and then there's poor business sense. If they were selling the product for $5 more than their competitors they might make money out of it but for $50? That's a ridiculous price for what it is. Even $15 is expensive for a bike bell. surely one of the first things a business should be doing is considering whether they are pricing themselves appropriately: too expensive means that either nobody will buy it or somebody will come along and undercut them.

Sure there is a market for expensive overpriced bike gear but I know of no cyclist who invests big money in cycling who would be seen dead with a bell on their expensive frame. The bell market is, I assume, pretty much exclusively the wholesalers who have to fit bells to bikes by law, with kids and the casual "rail trail" cyclist who is unlikely to be spending huge money on a bike (and certainly not on an expensive bell) making up the rest - so there is a very limited market for a $50 bell no matter how well it is manufactured. History is littered with great business ideas that were priced wrong and failed as a result.

[RonK]

Sure there is a market for expensive overpriced bike gear but I know of no cyclist who invests big money in cycling who would be seen dead with a bell on their expensive frame.

On the contrary - I know quite a few who won't put a cheap crappy product on their expensive bike but are happy to be seen with a high quality item. I count myself among them and have no doubt most Spurcycle customers feel the same way.

You cannot justify ripping off another's design simply because you don't like the price.

Victim blaming is an insidious thing. Another prime example.

"Whilst I have sympathy for anybody who invests time and money in cycling and then gets run over, you'd have to question the sense of riding a bike in the first place."

Sound familiar?

Report away.

[idler]

$100+ fine in NSW if no bell on your expensive frame - hence the boom in bell sales in this state and why people are looking for something decent. I know a number of people who have been fined.

[bigfriendlyvegan]

Sure there is a market for expensive overpriced bike gear but I know of no cyclist who invests big money in cycling who would be seen dead with a bell on their expensive frame.

On the contrary - I know quite a few who won't put a cheap crappy product on their expensive bike but are happy to be seen with a high quality item. I count myself among them and have no doubt most Spurcycle customers feel the same way.

You cannot justify ripping off another's design simply because you don't like the price.

Victim blaming is an insidious thing. Another prime example.

"Whilst I have sympathy for anybody who invests time and money in cycling and then gets run over, you'd have to question the sense of riding a bike in the first place."

Sound familiar?

Report away.

Sounds like a strawman, with a bit of tu quoque, and a smattering of slippery slope and appeal to emotion.

[RonK]

Sounds like a strawman, with a bit of tu quoque, and a smattering of slippery slope and appeal to emotion.

That would be utterly fallacious.

[MichaelB]

Reality is that whatever someone makes, even if an absurdly ridiculous price is placed on it, and words like artisan, unique, tailroed, craftsman etc are associated with it, people will buy it because.

Whether it's a bell for A$90, plainish jersey's for $245, stiletto's for $1,500 (reduced to $1,000, so a BARGAIN), there will be poeple that, from their viewpoint can see the value, workmanship or uniqueness in it.

For me, a $90 bell is ludicrous, but for others a bargain.

First world problem.

Overall lesson here is that make sure you know the business rules and likely risks.

[tcdev]

Interesting article, thanks! My first bell was a $5 Giant from the LBS. That broke within 5 rides - the plastic hammer just snapped and fell right off. I then ordered a 'classic' bell from Torpedo7 as a last minute impulse addition to another order; it's large and clunky but at least there's no plastic. That got relegated to the 'family-ride' Schwinn pretty quickly and I swapped it out for the compact plastic-on-metal bell that came with the Schwinn. Although I didn't really do any research, I thereafter figured that all bike bells were pretty much rubbish.

Now I'm considering a Crane E-NE. I generally don't baulk at paying for quality, but even at $30 that's 6x the price of a cheap LBS bell... and BikeBug don't have black. A little more expensive again shipped from overseas on eBay, and then you run the risk of receiving a knock-off!

[eeksll]

slight risk of going OT, or maybe not.

Does anyone know what the IP laws are around this area? A long time ago in uni I thought I remembered a lecture along the lines of you can't charge what ever you want in regards to royalty fees (ie too high) for patents and you couldn't keep it private (to prevent big companies buying the patent and flat out stopping others from doing anything with it).

I have done a bit of googling but seem to have read things like exclusive rights to patents which would contradict what I said above.

I did read the article and in this case I know there where no patents and the fact amazon is selling the knock-off on amazon which seems to suggest no laws are infringed upon.

[}SkOrPn--7]

Now I'm considering a Crane E-NE. I generally don't baulk at paying for quality, but even at $30 that's 6x the price of a cheap LBS bell... and BikeBug don't have black. A little more expensive again shipped from overseas on eBay, and then you run the risk of receiving a knock-off!

I have a Crane Bell E-ne and think you will be pretty happy with that choice it's a good compromise from getting away from those cheap useless bells and not busting the bank. I rarely use a bell but when I do it is nice to know that giving it a flick you get a loud sustained ring without worrying about rotating the bell to ensure it rings right or that thud sound of the lever hitting the bell wrong. I too like quality but there is no way I would spend $75-90 on a Spurcycle bell thats out of my league for a rarely used item.

Ricky

[}SkOrPn--7]

Now I'm considering a Crane E-NE. BikeBug don't have black.(

Here you go found black for you at Velogear free shipping

http://tinyurl.com/gt5yg8x

Ricky

[tcdev]

Here you go found black for you at Velogear free shipping

Thanks, much appreciated! Though more again at $39, pity BikeBug don't carry it, I could pick it up from the Tempe warehouse on my next ride along the Cooks River path for $30... but again, appreciated!

[tcdev]

I rarely use a bell but when I do it is nice to know that giving it a flick you get a loud sustained ring without worrying about rotating the bell to ensure it rings right or that thud sound of the lever hitting the bell wrong.

I find I use mine at least once on most rides. One of my go-to short rides with a few hills when I'm pressed for time has a section of shared path that invariably has at least one, and usually several, pedestrians - and that's in winter! However bells, or at least lesser bells, are of limited utility when pedestrians are plugged into iPods/phones with music blaring in their ears. Then there's the non-zero proportion of the population that choose to ignore you regardless...

[NewStew]

..... Sure there is a market for expensive overpriced bike gear but I know of no cyclist who invests big money in cycling who would be seen dead with a bell on their expensive frame......

Sorry but just because you wouldn't put a bell on your expensive bike don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone thinks like you... I wouldn't be caught dead without a bell on my $8k bike (or any of my other bike other than the mountain bike) because I commute on it (when it isn't raining of course) and use the bell multiple times every day. I would certainly pay $50 for a bell that looked the part, was easy to use and gave a good sound - after all $50 for a bell is a lot less that potential damage to me and the bike if someone steps out in front of me (and before people say I have a perfectly good voice, in my experience I have found you get a better reaction from pedestrians from a bell than a shout - shouting at people confuses them)

[eeksll]

... I would certainly pay $50 for a bell that looked the part, was easy to use and gave a good sound - after all $50 for a bell is a lot less that potential damage to me and the bike if someone steps out in front of me ...

In that context why not pay $1k for a bell?

Answer: because it is possible to buy a far cheaper bell that looks as good and has as good a ring as shown in this thread.

Just to be clear, it is 50usd for the silver bell and 65 usd for the black one.

In light of the article the difference in quality is easy to see, but my knock off bell is still the best looking bell I have ever owned.

By reading the article, the price premium is not just about quality, it's about being made fully in the USA.

[NewStew]

... I would certainly pay $50 for a bell that looked the part, was easy to use and gave a good sound - after all $50 for a bell is a lot less that potential damage to me and the bike if someone steps out in front of me ...

In that context why not pay $1k for a bell?

Answer: because it is possible to buy a far cheaper bell that looks as good and has as good a ring as shown in this thread.

Just to be clear, it is 50usd for the silver bell and 65 usd for the black one.

In light of the article the difference in quality is easy to see, but my knock off bell is still the best looking bell I have ever owned.

By reading the article, the price premium is not just about quality, it's about being made fully in the USA.

Sorry you may have missed my point but I wasn't implying spending $1k on a bell but more that no-one who is into expensive cycling kit (and by implication self respecting) would have a bell in the first place.

[outnabike]

I read today a cyclist was fined $110-00 for no bell. I reckon him spending $50-00 the day before on the good bell would seem like money well spent today.
I know, I know, he would have been happy with a $2-00 one as well.

I reckon disposable income has a fair bit to do with what we buy. But not a lot of point arguing aver a bell and then getting pinged without one.
Buy a crappy one whilst thinking about it, I say.

[uart]

I read today a cyclist was fined $110-00 for no bell. I reckon him spending $50-00 the day before on the good bell would seem like money well spent today

A bit off topic I know, but just wondering if many NSW riders have been fined for *only* the no bell issue, or if it's usually associated with some other incident.

Some people have speculated that you would be unlikely to get fined for just the "no bell", unless there was some other reason for the cops to pull you over. But I suppose it could happen, especially if they're having a blitz or something.

[}SkOrPn--7]

I read today a cyclist was fined $110-00 for no bell. I reckon him spending $50-00 the day before on the good bell would seem like money well spent today

A bit off topic I know, but just wondering if many NSW riders have been fined for *only* the no bell issue, or if it's usually associated with some other incident.

Some people have speculated that you would be unlikely to get fined for just the "no bell", unless there was some other reason for the cops to pull you over. But I suppose it could happen, especially if they're having a blitz or something.

I think this is more the case a rider breaking the law in some form but taking it further may well be dicy so look down no bell clear cut case no further issue.

Ricky

[daft1024]

Resurrecting an old thread - I saw this on aliexpress and thought of the case of spur/rock bells. I had wondered how long it would be till there would be knock-off Knog Oi's.

[Comedian]

Resurrecting an old thread - I saw this on aliexpress and thought of the case of spur/rock bells. I had wondered how long it would be till there would be knock-off Knog Oi's.

I find it really remarkable. These days, if you produce something you've got to hope that your market niche is big enough for you to get a return - but not so big that it's worth the copiers doing a version. If your niche is worth while for a copier.. you've got to invest heavily in copywrite/patent. But even then you can't really hope to stop anyone outside of Europe or the US.

The other alternative is you just hope you can make enough in the first few months to get a return, or that your device is so complex/expensive that it isn't worth while or is too hard to do properly.

Interesting times.

FWIW I've seen a spurcycle bell in the flesh. It's easily the loudest and longest ringing bell I've ever seen. It looks like it will last forever too, unlike most cheaper bells which only ever seem to last a few years. These days, most people would rather by 5 of anything for 50 than one of something for 100. But that's how we work these days.

[RonK]

Resurrecting an old thread - I saw this on aliexpress and thought of the case of spur/rock bells. I had wondered how long it would be till there would be knock-off Knog Oi's.

I'm pretty sure this has already been posted here.

Knog Dramatically Confronts Chinese Knock Offs at Eurobike

[RonK]

FWIW I've seen a spurcycle bell in the flesh. It's easily the loudest and longest ringing bell I've ever seen.

I have two of them, they do indeed have a lovely tone and a sustained ring.

I also have a Timber bell, which also tinkles very sweetly - I wonder how long it will take for counterfeit copies to appear.

[eeksll]

interesting thread revival .

I read this the other week and thought of this thread http://fortune.com/2016/11/22/amazon-co ... t-sellers/

According to the report, Amazon has been “courting” more Chinese manufacturers, raising the risk of more counterfeit merchandise in its marketplace. Because of this, some sellers are losing trust in the marketplace and are even complaining of a loss in sales.

A few weeks ago, Amazon also filed its first lawsuits against sellers who allegedly sold counterfeit goods on the site.

[Mulger bill]

I also have a Timber bell, which also tinkles very sweetly - I wonder how long it will take for counterfeit copies to appear.

Damn, that is the coolest! Yours a QR or bolt on Ron?

[RonK]

I also have a Timber bell, which also tinkles very sweetly - I wonder how long it will take for counterfeit copies to appear.

Damn, that is the coolest! Yours a QR or bolt on Ron?

Mine is QR - I didn't see a bolt on when I bought it. The QR is good though. I have on the thick part of the bar, it doesn't move.

So you can be the first kid on your block to get one and be the cool kid on the block. Bell envy.

The local bicycle cops overtook me at an intersection the other day - one noticed the bell and asked me about it. They were quite impressed.