Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
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Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Mububban » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:12 pm
FYI the bikes are a 2017 Contend SL1 Disc (https://www.giant-bicycles.com/au/contend-sl-1-disc) vs a 2016 Defy Advanced 3 (https://www.giant-bicycles.com/au/defy-advanced-3-2016) however I'll be ringing my local shops to see if they have any runout 2015/16 stock of other brands/models in the budget.
I know the advice is "ride them both" but a short test ride around the block isn’t enough to give me a real feel for the difference of alloy vs carbon frames. And realistically, I’m not going to be smashing out big mileage regularly. The bike will be used for commuting (no panniers), weekend solo fitness rides, and I plan to try some week long touring holidays, and maybe modest events like the 80km Beverly Heroic. I’m keeping my old MTB for riding with the kids.
I’m 6 foot 2 and a skeletal 68kg if that matters.
I do not plan on upgrading anything on the bike (famous last words…) due to my limited budget, like my mountain that is 15 years old, this roadie will be mine forever with no major modifications.
I test rode and am pretty much sold on the alloy Contend for the 105 and the better wheels, it’s surprisingly light, the charcoal/orange looks snazzy and I like the internal cable routing, however I wonder if I’ll always wonder “what if” I don’t buy the carbon frame?
I'd appreciate input as I'm sure many of us have faced this buying decision!
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Derny Driver » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:20 pm
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby eeksll » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:04 am
the contend is a SEMI-hydraulic, i.e the levers still pull a cable. It would be worth seeing if they actually feel better. Giant also have test rides where you can take it out for a day, although they might not have that option at this price level
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Calvin27 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:11 am
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby SheikYerbouti » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:25 am
That's a comment on the brakes, not on the question of good alloy v cheap carbon though.eeksll wrote:the contend is a SEMI-hydraulic, i.e the levers still pull a cable. It would be worth seeing if they actually feel better.
I ride a decent alloy roadie (Bianchi with 105 10sp), can't tell the weight difference with mates' carbon bikes, and am happy doing 100km rides on it. Never ridden a carbon bike so no idea if it feels different, but also have never found my bike lacking for my purposes so have never needed to look elsewhere.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Mububban » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:02 am
That's sort of what I'm thinking - I'll never miss what I don't know. And the Contend alloy was so light, it even sounded almost carbon-like when you tap on the frame (unlike my behemoth 2003 MTB!).SheikYerbouti wrote:I ride a decent alloy roadie (Bianchi with 105 10sp), can't tell the weight difference with mates' carbon bikes, and am happy doing 100km rides on it. Never ridden a carbon bike so no idea if it feels different, but also have never found my bike lacking for my purposes so have never needed to look elsewhere.
I'll still ring around the LBSs near me to see if they've got any real bargains eg a carbon with full 105 would be very tempting, but I think the Contend might be a winner
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Velt » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:21 am
Where are you located?
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Mububban » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:27 am
I did a M/L (a bit small for me) of a Defy Advanced so I could try out Tiagra, and I didn't feel much of a difference, although 105 was nicer, in isolation I would hardly be able to tell. Braking on both models felt similar.Velt wrote:I think you're best off riding them, getting a feel for the difference between the brakes and shifting and decide based on that.
Where are you located?
I tried a base model Contend with Sora at another store and that felt old-school - heavier, noisier and clunkier. Braking felt grabbier on the rim brakes, but I've heard that disc pads need time to bed in?
So far the 105 feels so nice the alloy SL1 is winning. but as I said I'll see if anyone has any 2014/2015 stock that fits me they want to get rid of within my budget.
I'm in WA, NoR.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Velt » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:18 pm
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby nickobec » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:49 pm
My alloy bike (Canyon AL8) is slightly smaller frame and a very aggressive setup than the other two. It is primarily my race bike, (it replaced my carbon fibre Fuji SL1 pro in thsat role). I will happily do long training rides and my 40km commute (often with 35km group ride tagged on) on it.
It does a far better job than the Fuji in soaking up road chatter.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Duck! » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:34 pm
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Mulger bill » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:37 pm
There's the answer. You'll remember how much fun you're having riding long after you forget the priceVelt wrote:I think you're best off riding them, getting a feel for the difference between the brakes and shifting and decide based on that.
Where are you located?
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby eeksll » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:00 pm
well the question is better specced alloy (not good alloy, contend is the bottom grade alloy in the giant range). I would consider what might have been confused as full hydraulic disk brakes being the key difference in specs.SheikYerbouti wrote:That's a comment on the brakes, not on the question of good alloy v cheap carbon though.eeksll wrote:the contend is a SEMI-hydraulic, i.e the levers still pull a cable. It would be worth seeing if they actually feel better.
I ride a decent alloy roadie (Bianchi with 105 10sp), can't tell the weight difference with mates' carbon bikes, and am happy doing 100km rides on it. Never ridden a carbon bike so no idea if it feels different, but also have never found my bike lacking for my purposes so have never needed to look elsewhere.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby CXCommuter » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:28 pm
I looked at the contend and was impressed. My only gripe was the brake set up connected to the front of the stem. This made it difficult to attach things to the bars. Giant does apparently give you attachments that fit.
Otherwise it was shortlisted as a viable wet weather bike. Just trumped by a cannondale synapse adventure which was on sale.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby rodneycc » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:53 pm
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Mububban » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:06 am
Yeah it's their ALUXX SL higher grade alloy. Hefting the SL1 against a Defy Advanced 3 on the shop floor, the weight difference was imperceptible by hand.CXCommuter wrote:The contend sl1 has the better aluminum frame. Lower spec Contends have the cheaper alloy.
I looked at the contend and was impressed. My only gripe was the brake set up connected to the front of the stem. This made it difficult to attach things to the bars. Giant does apparently give you attachments that fit.
I rode them both over some very coarse chip bitumen and the alloy actually felt a bit smoother. They were both on the same 25mm rubber, so possibly it was the upgraded wheels making for a smoother ride?
$2000 (for the 2016 model) is pushing the budget a bit too far unfortunately (assuming I could still find a frame in my size), and the $1500 price on the SL1 is a limited time offer. Normally it's $1900 as it's a 2017 model.rodneycc wrote:Scrape, save and even steal to go one level up on the Defy Advanced to a 2015 or '16 Advanced 2. Its prob the sweet spot of value vs performance in their entire range.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby g-boaf » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am
If you ever ride a carbon bike, or get a chance to ride a really top end one with very light wheels, give it a go. It will shock you just how responsive they feel. The other nice thing about mine is that while it is essentially pure race bike, it is really compliant over terrible road surfaces. The wheels and the 25mm tyres make an enormous difference.SheikYerbouti wrote:That's a comment on the brakes, not on the question of good alloy v cheap carbon though.eeksll wrote:the contend is a SEMI-hydraulic, i.e the levers still pull a cable. It would be worth seeing if they actually feel better.
I ride a decent alloy roadie (Bianchi with 105 10sp), can't tell the weight difference with mates' carbon bikes, and am happy doing 100km rides on it. Never ridden a carbon bike so no idea if it feels different, but also have never found my bike lacking for my purposes so have never needed to look elsewhere.
All that said, I know of some alloy bikes that are really light as well, around 7.8kg and that's lighter than some carbon bikes. The key thing of course is how you ride the bike. A difference of 1kg will be more than covered by a really fast rider.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Mububban » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:11 pm
Alas, I doubt I'll ever be in the position to drop $3000+ on a really top end bike, so I'm trying to be realistic about my uses, and have decided to stick with the alloy Contend. And I shall deliberately avoid riding anyone's $5000 carbon bike and hope to live in ignorant blissg-boaf wrote:If you ever ride a carbon bike, or get a chance to ride a really top end one with very light wheels, give it a go. It will shock you just how responsive they feel. The other nice thing about mine is that while it is essentially pure race bike, it is really compliant over terrible road surfaces. The wheels and the 25mm tyres make an enormous difference.
All that said, I know of some alloy bikes that are really light as well, around 7.8kg and that's lighter than some carbon bikes. The key thing of course is how you ride the bike. A difference of 1kg will be more than covered by a really fast rider.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Calvin27 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:17 pm
I think there is a lot more difference when you go from a low end sora equipped bike to something liek the contend. As you go higher up the differences are less noticable. Most of the time when you go from a decent spec alloy to a carbon there are several factors at play - wheels, frame and drivetrain contribute rather than just the carboness of the frame. Also, people with carbon frames tend to maintain their bikes better imo and they run smoother.Mububban wrote:And I shall deliberately avoid riding anyone's $5000 carbon bike and hope to live in ignorant bliss
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby cyclotaur » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:30 pm
...ppfff-f-t !!Calvin27 wrote:....Also, people with carbon frames tend to maintain their bikes better imo and they run smoother.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Calvin27 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:17 pm
'people with carbon bikes tend to GET OTHERS to maintain their bikes more often than those who DIY
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby BJL » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:08 pm
And that's a good thing? I know people who wouldn't know the first thing and any tiny problem means an end to a ride and a call for help. The DIY'ers are more knowledgeable and from my experience, I haven't come across a bike shop yet that can properly adjust a derailleur. So, getting OTHERS to maintain your bike isn't necessarily better than DIY.Calvin27 wrote:ok fine,
'people with carbon bikes tend to GET OTHERS to maintain their bikes more often than those who DIY
So, who maintains their bikes better might I ask? People who value their bikes and do it themselves or those who get others to do it because they themselves couldn't be bothered and don't really care anyway because the next bike upgrade is on the horizon?
My theory is that the value of something is your ability to replace it. You tend to take more care of things you can't easily replace.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby Zippy7 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:31 pm
I think you should get the alloy bike with better components - it is probably a heaps better package than the old carbon bike.
Since you will ride with your kids on your MTB, there might be a time you go with them on your new bike. Easier and less stress with an alloy frame - You can't put a kickstand on a carbon bike. Also, if both bikes weigh about the same, then the carbon frame is probably a cheapie, or the alloy is a goodie. Either way, the alloy is better
Just be happy with whatever you buy - you'll forget the price, but have buyers remorse for a long time.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby g-boaf » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:14 am
Oh really.?Calvin27 wrote:ok fine,
'people with carbon bikes tend to GET OTHERS to maintain their bikes more often than those who DIY
I built that myself. And maintain it myself too, as I do with all of my bikes.
I think the alloy bike with the better components is by far the best bet than a low end carbon bike with less decent components.
Only the really top end ones that are very light. It's just a shock. The one I built above, when I added those wheels to it I was completely stunned at the difference they made. They chopped about 300-400g off the weight, which probably shouldn't be that obvious - but when it comes off the wheels, it feels like a huge difference.Mububban wrote:Alas, I doubt I'll ever be in the position to drop $3000+ on a really top end bike, so I'm trying to be realistic about my uses, and have decided to stick with the alloy Contend. And I shall deliberately avoid riding anyone's $5000 carbon bike and hope to live in ignorant blissg-boaf wrote:If you ever ride a carbon bike, or get a chance to ride a really top end one with very light wheels, give it a go. It will shock you just how responsive they feel. The other nice thing about mine is that while it is essentially pure race bike, it is really compliant over terrible road surfaces. The wheels and the 25mm tyres make an enormous difference.
All that said, I know of some alloy bikes that are really light as well, around 7.8kg and that's lighter than some carbon bikes. The key thing of course is how you ride the bike. A difference of 1kg will be more than covered by a really fast rider.
Now it's just getting me back to full fitness and speed. It's getting there - I did hold 275w yesterday for 15 minutes without too much bother, that felt pretty easy. Another four weeks and I should hopefully be in the all clear injury wise.
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Re: Better spec alloy, or lower spec carbon?
Postby SheikYerbouti » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:38 pm
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