Is a TCR really an upgrade??

[Derny Driver]

You can take the bottom 2 spacers out and put them on top too

[Defy The Odds]

You can take the bottom 2 spacers out and put them on top too

I was thinking to do the first two (the ones currently on the top) and then the other two if I feel I am ready. Thinking maybe removing all the spacers from the bottom might be too much of a drop off the bat.

What do you reckon?

[Derny Driver]

You can take the bottom 2 spacers out and put them on top too

I was thinking to do the first two (the ones currently on the top) and then the other two if I feel I am ready. Thinking maybe removing all the spacers from the bottom might be too much of a drop off the bat.

What do you reckon?

Yeah agree, good thinking

[Defy The Odds]

You can take the bottom 2 spacers out and put them on top too

I was thinking to do the first two (the ones currently on the top) and then the other two if I feel I am ready. Thinking maybe removing all the spacers from the bottom might be too much of a drop off the bat.

What do you reckon?

Yeah agree, good thinking

Cheers mate

[A_P]

this is my current setup,
seat is virtually level, its a new seat and im still playing with the angle a little.
bars / hoods are level.
im slowly reducing the stack height as my flexibility allows.
best to do small changes at a time, and give yourself a few weeks to adapt to decide if its right or not.

[A_P]

I tightened the stem cap bolt bit by bit to see if it would fix the issue but its tight as and still feels like there is play. Might be my imagination

did you tighten the cap bolt before or after the stem bolts?

[Defy The Odds]

I tightened the stem cap bolt bit by bit to see if it would fix the issue but its tight as and still feels like there is play. Might be my imagination

did you tighten the cap bolt before or after the stem bolts?

I think before. Does it matter ?

[Defy The Odds]

this is my current setup,
seat is virtually level, its a new seat and im still playing with the angle a little.
bars / hoods are level.
im slowly reducing the stack height as my flexibility allows.
best to do small changes at a time, and give yourself a few weeks to adapt to decide if its right or not.

Everyone has different comfort levels..I found when the seat was level I would slide forward when the bars were angled down so tilting it slightly up took the pressure off the wrists/elbows for me

[Defy The Odds]

this is my current setup,
seat is virtually level, its a new seat and im still playing with the angle a little.
bars / hoods are level.
im slowly reducing the stack height as my flexibility allows.
best to do small changes at a time, and give yourself a few weeks to adapt to decide if its right or not.

I just noticed your bike looks like the Specialized twin version of mine
Same tool bidon, bottle

[A_P]

I tightened the stem cap bolt bit by bit to see if it would fix the issue but its tight as and still feels like there is play. Might be my imagination

did you tighten the cap bolt before or after the stem bolts?

I think before. Does it matter ?

You cant preload the headset bearings with the steerer bolts done up tight.
once you have tightened the steerer bolts you could undo the cap bolt without it coming loose.

tool bottles rock, the saddle bag is only used on long rides where water is scarce

[MattyK]

DtO: if it were my bike I would be stripping back the bar tape, and adjusting the bars until the ends of the drops were close to horizontal, or wherever gives the most comfortable position with hands in the drops. Then loosening off the hoods and moving them further up on the bars until they were about 5 degrees up from horizontal, or wherever the most comfortable hoods position is for you. A_P's bar position above is a good example.

[g-boaf]

Duck beat me to it. The way I look at it is the Propel is better for avg speeds over 30kms/h to get the aero benefits

What aero benefits would that be at 30km/h+? You'd want to be going 40km/h+ to get the benefits. And then if the rider gets lower on the bike and doesn't make as much wind resistance, that helps quite a lot.

Otherwise, not wearing loose fitting jerseys that flap around in the wind will help a lot too. There are cheaper solutions than dropping a lot of money on a quite expensive Propel.

I can't say exactly how quick a Propel is versus an absolutely top specification TCR Advanced SL, but I can compare that TCR with a Cervelo P5. On a flat section where the Giant is at 38km/h, the P5 is at 48km/h with me on the aerobars. Same amount of effort, just that on the P5 I'm so much more aero on that bike. I can't see a Propel giving that much of a dramatic difference.

[madmacca]

From the photos, the hoods look to be 7.5-10 cm above the saddle on the Defy, and about 5 cm below the saddle on the TCR. That would be a huge jump, and even if your body was flexible enough, that dramatic a change would be pretty uncomfortable for a while.

I'd recommend progressing things more gradually by adjusting the Defy one stage at a time (removing the spacers would be the easiest 1st step), before outlaying serious coin on a new bike. This will allow your body to adjust more progressively to a new more aggressive position.

[defy1]

is your seat level with the ground?

Not I believe it is tilted up slightly as this felt more comfortable for me

Oh ok. are you planning to change that? Just the pic you posted in terms of what you wanted to look is like that. If you don't, you might notice additional pressure in your family jewels if you don't, given the change in your stem/handlebar.

[Defy The Odds]

DtO: if it were my bike I would be stripping back the bar tape, and adjusting the bars until the ends of the drops were close to horizontal, or wherever gives the most comfortable position with hands in the drops. Then loosening off the hoods and moving them further up on the bars until they were about 5 degrees up from horizontal, or wherever the most comfortable hoods position is for you. A_P's bar position above is a good example.

Thanks Matty,

For now I think that by me flipping the stem and reducing stack height it is a step in the right direction and I think only a few weeks in the saddle will tell me this since doing the "mods". I am happy with the comfort levels so far (quick test ride only), but after a few weeks I might feel I can go a little harder on the stack height.

Here is how she looks now



I think the next thing that may be required is to increase stem length to 110mm (I think stock they are 100mm) and possible slightly increase saddle height

[Defy The Odds]

did you tighten the cap bolt before or after the stem bolts?

I think before. Does it matter ?

You cant preload the headset bearings with the steerer bolts done up tight.
once you have tightened the steerer bolts you could undo the cap bolt without it coming loose.

tool bottles rock, the saddle bag is only used on long rides where water is scarce

Mate thanks heaps. Went out to the garage and did what you said and "hey presto!" All is nice and tight once again !

Thanks again !

[Defy The Odds]

is your seat level with the ground?

Not I believe it is tilted up slightly as this felt more comfortable for me

Oh ok. are you planning to change that? Just the pic you posted in terms of what you wanted to look is like that. If you don't, you might notice additional pressure in your family jewels if you don't, given the change in your stem/handlebar.

I wanted to change things one at time so I don't get the whole geometry and "settings" all messed up. Thought I'd start with stem angle (flipping it) and stack height. Then after a week or two in the saddle if still uncomfortable downstairs then maybe tilt saddle slightly forwards to keep it more level, if you know what I mean.

My fear is changing too many things at once and not knowing what actually worked and didn't

[rodneycc]

Duck beat me to it. The way I look at it is the Propel is better for avg speeds over 30kms/h to get the aero benefits

What aero benefits would that be at 30km/h+? You'd want to be going 40km/h+ to get the benefits. And then if the rider gets lower on the bike and doesn't make as much wind resistance, that helps quite a lot.

Otherwise, not wearing loose fitting jerseys that flap around in the wind will help a lot too. There are cheaper solutions than dropping a lot of money on a quite expensive Propel.

I can't say exactly how quick a Propel is versus an absolutely top specification TCR Advanced SL, but I can compare that TCR with a Cervelo P5. On a flat section where the Giant is at 38km/h, the P5 is at 48km/h with me on the aerobars. Same amount of effort, just that on the P5 I'm so much more aero on that bike. I can't see a Propel giving that much of a dramatic difference.

And where exactly did I say buy a Propel ? If anything in my argument I leaned towards a TCR if anything but leant to nothing for the moment. I'd suggested 30km/h avg to see any benefit - emphasis on the average over a whole ride as, not many people I know ride at 40km/h avg ( or maybe on just a few very short Strava segments).

[g-boaf]

emphasis on the average over a whole ride

I didn't read it that way. My bad! Even at 30km/h average over a whole ride, I don't think the Propel will give you that much of an advantage. Most of my rides are around the 30-33km/h average speed range (100-145km rides).

[Duck!]

This part is correct...

You cant preload the headset bearings with the steerer bolts done up tight.

... so yes, it is important to ensure the stem bolts are loosened before adjusting the top bolt.

However, this part is not....

Once you have tightened the steerer bolts you could undo the cap bolt without it coming loose.

Do NOT loosen the cap bolt after tightening the stem bolts. Even when properly torqued, road vibrations can have a slide hammer effect on the headset assembly and push the stem up the steerer, undoing the preload on the bearings. Even with the cap bolt kept at its preload tension the hammer effect can loosen it, so it's actually best once the bearing preload has been set and the stem bolts torqued to further nip the top bolt up another 1/8 turn or so to bind its threads & stop it loosening.

[A_P]

obviously i neglected to state the bleedingly obvious...my bad

[defy1]

Not I believe it is tilted up slightly as this felt more comfortable for me

Oh ok. are you planning to change that? Just the pic you posted in terms of what you wanted to look is like that. If you don't, you might notice additional pressure in your family jewels if you don't, given the change in your stem/handlebar.

I wanted to change things one at time so I don't get the whole geometry and "settings" all messed up. Thought I'd start with stem angle (flipping it) and stack height. Then after a week or two in the saddle if still uncomfortable downstairs then maybe tilt saddle slightly forwards to keep it more level, if you know what I mean.

My fear is changing too many things at once and not knowing what actually worked and didn't

Nps..was your initial setup done DIY or by a bike fit?

[Defy The Odds]

I've tightened all bolts now and all seems nice and tight like before, no play.

In terms of the fit, it was done by the shop. When I first got the bike, being my first road bike the stem angled down was too aggressive for me as I was quite overweight and inflexible at the time. I went to the shop and asked to flip the stem and tilt the bars to something more comfortable which it has been that way ever since.

That was about a year or so ago but hadn't had many km since then. Only started riding regularly and seriously in the last 2-3 months aND have lost alot of weight, therefore now am looking for something more aggressive in terms of positioning as my body tells me it can handle it

[kx315]

I have the same 2013 Defy Advanced 0 I also have the 2016 TCR Advanced Pro 0........After getting the TCR not a big fan of the Defy anymore. TCR is way more responsive and puts the power down much better than the Defy.

[Tim]

TCR is way more responsive and puts the power down much better than the Defy.

Phooey.
That's just how it feels, it isn't the reality. It's what Giant want you to think.
Fit a power meter to both bikes, pump out 40km's with identical power output and the TCR might get you to the finish about 10 seconds quicker, at a rough guess. There won't be much in it.
I own a Defy Adv Pro and a TCR Adv SL. The TCR's shorter wheelbase makes the bike's steering more snappy and the lighter frame and wheels makes it feel quicker. The TCR accelerates a little bit quicker, maybe, it feels like it.
My times and speeds at similar effort (based on HR) aren't very different.
The TCR feels much faster. It isn't. The truth is I am faster on some days, slower on others. The bikes don't change and there aint much difference performance wise between the two.
It's all about perception, marginal gains and marketing.