Disc Vs Rim Braking System

[trainspotter]

By my rough count, a hydro disc caliper contains 14 individual parts, vs around 40 in a rim caliper.

I've just disassembled my Super Record calipers and found these to have 38 parts for the front dual pivot, and 33 for the rear single pivot caliper, so your rough count is pretty accurate.
Can you put them back together for me now?

If they were disc calipers, yes (done it many times in my repurposing Avid Trail calipers to run Mineral oil ....). Otherwise you are SOOL.

Good thing I cheated and counted the parts off the spares catalogue

[djw47]

Yes, you're right. I've had only two disc brake bikes. I've got one hydraulic rim brake bike. Some troubles I've had with those bikes.

- Alfine caliper leaking. - resulting in big noise and no stopping. Replace whole unit. 3x replacement pad sets in 10k
- Avid brakes on mountain bike. Dragging, squealing, ticking. Told no way of fixing - just replace both brake systems completely (2.5k covered). This is as yet unresolved.
- Hydraulic rim brake - caliper leaking. Warranty replacement of the entire system with three weeks off road.

I've done about 60k on the road bikes which is probably 6x more than the three bikes above. In that time I've replaced maybe 3 or 4 sets of pads? No cables. No parts, no callipers. Yes, you're right I haven't used discs much. But can you see why I'm not rushing to the technology? I haven't got time for that stuff!

I've had a few caliper brake road bikes and gone through brand new sets of brake pads in a single ride many times when it's wet and I'm descending ($25 Shimano pads seemed to dissolve in the rain). I've also descended down steep gradients in the wet with virtually no stopping ability because the calipers were useless. I've also worn through expensive rims and had to replace them because the caliper brakes act like sandpaper.

I've only had one disc brake road bike and had zero problems with it (so far). I can stop easily and consistently in the wet. I can use expensive, light carbon rims without fear of grinding or delaminating them on steep descents. It's a no-brainer if you don't race that disc brakes are the way to go. It's not a fad, it's an actual, real benefit and an improvement on what we've lived with up to now. Anybody who rides gradients on a road bike should consider moving to discs.

[Toyopet]

^ Agreed! A similar experience here.

I would also add the following, after having my hydraulic disc-braked road bike for a year and half now, putting 16,000 trouble free kilometres on it so far.

*Unsurpassable modulation and control.
*Auto-adjustment/alignment of pads - on hydraulic disc brake systems - so no need to stuff around with brake pad adjustments every so often.
*Less input pressure - which is great for tired or arthritic hands and fingers. (Easier and nicer braking in any case)
*Very easy to change pads, which I’ve done a couple of times now.
*Little or no maintenance requirements. I bought a bleed kit just in case - a waste of money as I’ve not needed it, despite transporting the bike on its side and upside down at times.

I don’t race and never will, so went for the better system - no matter what UCI says.

[Patt0]

30km/h, bottom of long 5% decline, rain, wet slippery mold covered narrow path and a rider falls less than ten metres in front of me. He was coming up the hill and appeared to have a pedal slip putting the power down. Some may its a stretch to say discs saved me, but I dont think so. Beautiful predictable braking and stopped with 3 metres to spare. Fallen rider was ok, just a little shaken.

[eeksll]

hmmm the bb7's on my commuter dont bite as well initially in the wet than in the dry. that is, I wouldn't say its that consistent.

Still better than rim brakes in the wet though.

[Ivanerrol]

I had so so Tektro rim brakes on my Specialized hybrid. Swapped them out for XT's. Difference was substantial.
The hybrid brakes perform much better than my roadie with Tektro rim Mini's.

The Specialized front strut has the facility for disk. I went and bought a disk wheel with rotor and was going to install it. Just need to buy the caliper and brake lever assembly. LBS mechanic advised me to go cable.

I haven't installed it as yet. On reflection most braking I do is with the rear. I've been OTH a couple of times ... so I'm wary of front braking.

I have needed to replace the brake (and derailleur) cables on two of my bikes. The cable had corrosion due to lack of lubrication (by Previous owners) and had expanded within the cabling tubing making the operation of the brakes stiff. Needed to buy new cables.

When the International committees eventually allow disks on road racers then the disk vs rim subject will become moot.

[bychosis]

I've been riding my roadie more lately, it has rim brakes. This morning I hopped on my MTB for the first time since December, it has hydraulic disc brakes. I had to readjust my braking fingers to the additional power and control. Was surprised how different it felt, and that was in the dry. Perhaps there were other factors in play such at geometry and tyre contact patch. I usually lift the rear wheel a bit braking hard on the roadie so on the balance of that think that I will start looking for a disc roadie sooner than I had thought. Besides, I'm getting bored with the fleet I think.

[find_bruce]

I've been riding my roadie more lately, it has rim brakes. This morning I hopped on my MTB for the first time since December, it has hydraulic disc brakes. I had to readjust my braking fingers to the additional power and control. Was surprised how different it felt, and that was in the dry. Perhaps there were other factors in play such at geometry and tyre contact patch. I usually lift the rear wheel a bit braking hard on the roadie so on the balance of that think that I will start looking for a disc roadie sooner than I had thought. Besides, I'm getting bored with the fleet I think.

I use my hybrid commuter to tow my not so little man - 15kg of weehoo & 20+kg of boy so I decided to increase front disc from 160mm to 180mm - first time out I nearly put myself over the bars.

Funnily enough I don't have an issue swapping between the commuter & the roadie. My next commuter is likely to be a disc brake drop bar gravel grinder

[bychosis]

Funnily enough I don't have an issue swapping between the commuter & the roadie. My next commuter is likely to be a disc brake drop bar gravel grinder

Normally when I switch from one to the other more frequently I don't notice it so much, it's just been a while since I've been on the MTB

[eeksll]

I do notice the extra power with the hydraulics on the mtb. Just as well the sitting position is all different otherwise OTB I would go.

however I don't notice too much difference between the road bike (campag) and flat bar commuter bb7 180mm (or 185) front disc rotor (rim brakes rear).

But compared to the 105 5600 brakes on the old road bike, now the dry weather commuter, scarily different.

[eeksll]

I haven't installed it as yet. On reflection most braking I do is with the rear. I've been OTH a couple of times ... so I'm wary of front braking.

as you have found out, braking on a bicycle is not the same as braking on a car. Slamming on the front will require moving your weight as far back as possible.

[Duck!]

I do notice the extra power with the hydraulics on the mtb. Just as well the sitting position is all different otherwise OTB I would go.
...
But compared to the 105 5600 brakes on the old road bike, now the dry weather commuter, scarily different.

That's got as much to do with the tyres being around four times the width as anything else......

[Comedian]

I rode with a small group on Tuesday. 50% of the 4 people had disc brakes.

I've really not got anything to report though as I don't even recall using my brakes... Or maybe their discs were the cause of me riding them off my wheel?

[biker jk]

I rode with a small group on Tuesday. 50% of the 4 people had disc brakes.

I've really not got anything to report though as I don't even recall using my brakes... Or maybe their discs were the cause of me riding them off my wheel?

Surely there was a mass pile up caused by a rider just touching their overpowerful disc brakes and you had your head sliced off at the neck?

As an aside, my group ride last Saturday had half of the eight riders with disc brakes. Not only did we survive but I averaged over 30kmh and made it back first. Mind you, that would likely have been the case riding my rim brake bike on this flat route so I don't understand your point.

[Comedian]

I rode with a small group on Tuesday. 50% of the 4 people had disc brakes.

I've really not got anything to report though as I don't even recall using my brakes... Or maybe their discs were the cause of me riding them off my wheel?

Surely there was a mass pile up caused by a rider just touching their overpowerful disc brakes and you had your head sliced off at the neck?

As an aside, my group ride last Saturday had half of the eight riders with disc brakes. Not only did we survive but I averaged over 30kmh and made it back first. Mind you, that would likely have been the case riding my rim brake bike on this flat route so I don't understand your point.

Sorry.. I was being silly. My point was - no one even used the brakes.

[Comedian]

So, I didn't put this in the other thread as it's not related to the UCI thing in anyway. I was talking to a guy with a Ti bike that he had had for many years. It was of course going well.

He said he was contemplating buying another bike with disc brakes and I may have rolled my eyes. So I had a look at his bike, and it was suffering from the typical Shimano problem. The lever throw isn't great, and then a good portion of what was available was used by bending the callipers. These were the same brakes I had when I was running shimano (ultegra 6700). I had this same experience, when your braking effort goes into bending a calliper it's hard to modulate the brakes because your force is kind of caught up in an intermediary and applied to the wheel in an inconsistent manner.

So, I said ... dude... don't buy a new bike just get some new brakes. I sent him for a ride on my bike (alloy rims, record brakes with 20k). He did a little ride and came back and said "Wow.. they are strong". I'm not sure what he's going to do...

It's another case of Shimano kicking their own goals...

[biker jk]

So, I didn't put this in the other thread as it's not related to the UCI thing in anyway. I was talking to a guy with a Ti bike that he had had for many years. It was of course going well.

He said he was contemplating buying another bike with disc brakes and I may have rolled my eyes. So I had a look at his bike, and it was suffering from the typical Shimano problem. The lever throw isn't great, and then a good portion of what was available was used by bending the callipers. These were the same brakes I had when I was running shimano (ultegra 6700). I had this same experience, when your braking effort goes into bending a calliper it's hard to modulate the brakes because your force is kind of caught up in an intermediary and applied to the wheel in an inconsistent manner.

So, I said ... dude... don't buy a new bike just get some new brakes. I sent him for a ride on my bike (alloy rims, record brakes with 20k). He did a little ride and came back and said "Wow.. they are strong". I'm not sure what he's going to do...

It's another case of Shimano kicking their own goals...

I rode my disc brake bike today over 120km or so. It was wet. The disc brakes in the wet are better than the Ultegra 6800 brakes on my Lynskey in the dry by an enormous degree.

[Comedian]

So, I didn't put this in the other thread as it's not related to the UCI thing in anyway. I was talking to a guy with a Ti bike that he had had for many years. It was of course going well.

He said he was contemplating buying another bike with disc brakes and I may have rolled my eyes. So I had a look at his bike, and it was suffering from the typical Shimano problem. The lever throw isn't great, and then a good portion of what was available was used by bending the callipers. These were the same brakes I had when I was running shimano (ultegra 6700). I had this same experience, when your braking effort goes into bending a calliper it's hard to modulate the brakes because your force is kind of caught up in an intermediary and applied to the wheel in an inconsistent manner.

So, I said ... dude... don't buy a new bike just get some new brakes. I sent him for a ride on my bike (alloy rims, record brakes with 20k). He did a little ride and came back and said "Wow.. they are strong". I'm not sure what he's going to do...

It's another case of Shimano kicking their own goals...

I rode my disc brake bike today over 120km or so. It was wet. The disc brakes in the wet are better than the Ultegra 6800 brakes on my Lynskey in the dry by an enormous degree.

Yes.. I rest my case. That's exactly what I'm saying.. Shimano kicking it's own goals. Make rubbish rim brakes, and then .. but wait we have these new disc brakes here that work heaps better than our rubbish rim brakes. Shimano with a solution to their own problem. If you have a friend with campy brakes, why not ask for a ride one day?

At any rate.. even if that point is lost, I'd like to remind that I've always said that discs would make sense for people that ride a lot in the rain. Further on that - I've also said that I live in an area where we have so little rain that it discs would be far more of an impost than a benefit. The last time I knowingly went out for a long ride in the rain was New years day 2015 for a century ride. Since then, due to ill health I've only covered about 25,000k and in that 27 months or so I've only had a handful of damp commutes. If there is a training ride on and it's raining.. I just wait a day or do it later when it's dry.

Even if I had discs, I'd still wait until it was dry as riding in the rain is still hard on the rest of the bike, it's more dangerous, and it's just not pleasant. Hence why I sincerely hope that the choice remains so I can have the choice a lighter, simpler, and more responsive bike.

[silentC]

I really do worry about people who think discs are complicated...

[warthog1]

Yes.. I rest my case. That's exactly what I'm saying.. Shimano kicking it's own goals. Make rubbish rim brakes, and then .. but wait we have these new disc brakes here that work heaps better than our rubbish rim brakes. Shimano with a solution to their own problem. If you have a friend with campy brakes, why not ask for a ride one day?

You have this ar$e about.
Shimano's dual pivot 5800, 6800, 9000 range of calipers are regularly rated as the best out there.
Campy are in trouble here as they are also rans in all classes of brakes.

[biker jk]

Yes.. I rest my case. That's exactly what I'm saying.. Shimano kicking it's own goals. Make rubbish rim brakes, and then .. but wait we have these new disc brakes here that work heaps better than our rubbish rim brakes. Shimano with a solution to their own problem. If you have a friend with campy brakes, why not ask for a ride one day?

You have this ar$e about.
Shimano's dual pivot 5800, 6800, 9000 range of calipers are regularly rated as the best out there.
Campy are in trouble here as they are also rans in all classes of brakes.

That's why I made the comparison of my disc brakes with 6800.

[Comedian]

Yes.. I rest my case. That's exactly what I'm saying.. Shimano kicking it's own goals. Make rubbish rim brakes, and then .. but wait we have these new disc brakes here that work heaps better than our rubbish rim brakes. Shimano with a solution to their own problem. If you have a friend with campy brakes, why not ask for a ride one day?

You have this ar$e about.
Shimano's dual pivot 5800, 6800, 9000 range of calipers are regularly rated as the best out there.
Campy are in trouble here as they are also rans in all classes of brakes.

Sure ... Link me up.. show me these comparisons of shimano to campy brakes you speak of!

When I first saw 11 speed durace.. I said those brakes are a lot better as you could visibly see much less distortion... but I've never ridden one.

[eeksll]

I did notice a friends bike with 5800 brakes, they are way chunkier than my 5600 brake calipers.

A bit late now that discs are coming out?

[Duck!]

Yes.. I rest my case. That's exactly what I'm saying.. Shimano kicking it's own goals. Make rubbish rim brakes, and then .. but wait we have these new disc brakes here that work heaps better than our rubbish rim brakes. Shimano with a solution to their own problem. If you have a friend with campy brakes, why not ask for a ride one day?

You have this ar$e about.
Shimano's dual pivot 5800, 6800, 9000 range of calipers are regularly rated as the best out there.
Campy are in trouble here as they are also rans in all classes of brakes.

Sure ... Link me up.. show me these comparisons of shimano to campy brakes you speak of!

When I first saw 11 speed durace.. I said those brakes are a lot better as you could visibly see much less distortion... but I've never ridden one.

To have a case to rest, you must first be able to make a case, which you cannot do when you have not experienced the product you're dismissing.

[Comedian]

You have this ar$e about.
Shimano's dual pivot 5800, 6800, 9000 range of calipers are regularly rated as the best out there.
Campy are in trouble here as they are also rans in all classes of brakes.

Sure ... Link me up.. show me these comparisons of shimano to campy brakes you speak of!

When I first saw 11 speed durace.. I said those brakes are a lot better as you could visibly see much less distortion... but I've never ridden one.

To have a case to rest, you must first be able to make a case, which you cannot do when you have not experienced the product you're dismissing.

Correct... I have not used the latest Shimano brakes. But - nor have most of the people here ridden campag brakes? I've noted a lack of disclosure about that yet people comment. How many thousands of k's have you ridden with campy brakes?