Disc Vs Rim Braking System

4 1 3 0
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Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby 4 1 3 0 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:37 pm

Hi All
Just surfing around the web checking many of the Carbon road bikes on offer and it seems a lot of company's
Have jumped into the Disc Brake set ups, It came as a bit of a shock really about how many are on offer.
Anyway I'm wondering how many of you are riding with disc and how do you find it?And is there many out there that just may not ever use discs?

Velt
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Velt » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:45 pm

Both my bikes have hydraulic discs, I'd never go back to rims personally. The only downside I find is truing rotors between wheel swaps but if you get a bike with through axels that may be less of an issue.

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Patt0 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:00 pm

Hydro disc with thru axle. Love it. Lots of stopping on my commute and I am a heavy boy so seems logical to me. If racing I see little reason to go disc.
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singlespeedscott
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:38 pm

Never felt I needed discs on my road bike as I rarely touch the brakes unless it's on fast descents and even then I haven't felt I needed them. Bigger, grippier tyres offer better braking performance imo. On the dirt disc are a no brainer for single track but for anything else they are over kill
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CXCommuter
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby CXCommuter » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:24 pm

Have both rim and disc. Disc brakes for the any weather commuter with mudguards as i got sick of both of us being dirty and muddy. The better bike has standard rim brakes with full carbon rims.
Both bikes work fine in all weather the disc braked bike needs substantially less servicing due to the lack of wet weather brake grind.
I personally see discs as overkill on a fair weather bike.
Note all comments are regarding road bikes.
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Zippy7 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:38 pm

I have had both braking systems on my bikes.
I prefer discs, for safety reasons.
I got caught in the rain (unexpected) and was going downhill and the braking performance was massively reduced for me in the wet. Until that point, I was fine with rim brakes for my weekend ride. After that, I sold my rim braked bike and bought a disc braked bike for the weekend rides.
I figure it's my safety involved, and it was a good enough excuse to upgrade.
YMMV, and your minister of finance may have a differing opinion :)
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Duck! » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:09 pm

In terms of absolute braking power there's very little in it because tyre grip is the limiting factor. Where discs, especially hydraulics win is in brake control; system leverage & force magnification mean for a given lever input, the pad movement is shorter, which gives very fine control of the brake without needing a hair-trigger finger. The virtually frictionless operation of a hydraulic brake means that only a tiny proportion of input effort is required to generate the same braking force. The other plus is all-weather consistency. Developments in rim brake pad compounds, and in the case of carbon rims, surface coatings as well, have reduced the gap between wet & dry performance, but there's still an appreciable loss of effectiveness of rim brakes in the wet. Discs are much less prone to being affected by wet weather.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Xplora
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Xplora » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:58 pm

If you get discs, get hydraulic. Much better, more powerful. But I wouldn't waste my time with discs for a roadie. They are useful if you are doing ALPINE DESCENTS. Sydney Doesn't have anything worth getting discs for. Scary but true. I'm a bit unhappy about my rear brake right now, carbon rim brake, but honestly, my old cable disc brake commuter wasn't any better. I had to pull HARD in poor conditions.

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby biker jk » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:03 pm

Xplora wrote:If you get discs, get hydraulic. Much better, more powerful. But I wouldn't waste my time with discs for a roadie. They are useful if you are doing ALPINE DESCENTS. Sydney Doesn't have anything worth getting discs for. Scary but true. I'm a bit unhappy about my rear brake right now, carbon rim brake, but honestly, my old cable disc brake commuter wasn't any better. I had to pull HARD in poor conditions.
It doesn't rain in Sydney?

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby warthog1 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:24 pm

They make sense for an all weather commuter.
Your typical bunch riding roadie doesn't choose to ride in the rain. Yes it can rain during the ride but not often enough, even in woeful weathered Vic, that I would bother.
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silentC
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby silentC » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:38 pm

Here is a prediction: if your next road bike is not disc, the one after will certainly be :)

Here are the reasons I can see for NOT buying a disc-braked bike:

1. Cost
2. Weight
3. Aesthetics (this includes "I don't need them")

I think cost and weight will become less of a factor over the next few years. Can't do much about the third item, and no reason to worry about it really, as long as folks are happy.

Personally, I wouldn't ever try to talk someone into or out of them. I think they are a great choice for a general purpose all-weather road bike. But rim brakes work just fine.

People who like to follow the fashions of the pro peleton are a different story, but I'm not one of them so can't really comment. I have never bought something just because so and so uses one.

I am seeing them more and more though. We have had 3 new purchases in our little bunch in the last 6 months. It's only a matter of time and as I say within one or two cycles I reckon most people will be riding them.
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Xplora » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:50 pm

biker jk wrote:
Xplora wrote:If you get discs, get hydraulic. Much better, more powerful. But I wouldn't waste my time with discs for a roadie. They are useful if you are doing ALPINE DESCENTS. Sydney Doesn't have anything worth getting discs for. Scary but true. I'm a bit unhappy about my rear brake right now, carbon rim brake, but honestly, my old cable disc brake commuter wasn't any better. I had to pull HARD in poor conditions.
It doesn't rain in Sydney?
My experience has been that discs didn't improve wet weather braking substantially. I will go over the bars if I grabbed those brakes fast in the dry, but it was quite sluggish otherwise.

If your rim brakes suck, you adapt to that. I found the trade off wasn't worthwhile.

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby biker jk » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Xplora wrote:
biker jk wrote:
Xplora wrote:If you get discs, get hydraulic. Much better, more powerful. But I wouldn't waste my time with discs for a roadie. They are useful if you are doing ALPINE DESCENTS. Sydney Doesn't have anything worth getting discs for. Scary but true. I'm a bit unhappy about my rear brake right now, carbon rim brake, but honestly, my old cable disc brake commuter wasn't any better. I had to pull HARD in poor conditions.
It doesn't rain in Sydney?
My experience has been that discs didn't improve wet weather braking substantially. I will go over the bars if I grabbed those brakes fast in the dry, but it was quite sluggish otherwise.

If your rim brakes suck, you adapt to that. I found the trade off wasn't worthwhile.
I have one bike with rim brakes and the other has hydraulic disc brakes. The braking in rain is chalk and cheese. Even in the dry where rim brakes are fine, hydraulic disc brakes are simply better.

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby RobertL » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:03 pm

silentC wrote:Here are the reasons I can see for NOT buying a disc-braked bike:

3. Aesthetics
I know that this is true, but I have never understood it. It must be because I never really "got into" bikes until relatively recently, but to me discs look better. When I first saw disc brakes on MTBs they represented modernity, power, design, engineering and technology. I loved how lightweight and fragile they looked compared to disc brakes on cars or motorbikes.

Now that they are on road bikes, I think: "what took you so long?"

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Thoglette » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:05 pm

Duck! wrote: Discs are much less prone to being affected by wet weather.
This is all. For the first foomteenth of a second (which can feel like a very long time).

Everything else is about implementation and design compromises made. And maintenance.

There's 56 pages and counting of she said/he said in this thread

Personally, my dream bike today (it's rained all week) would have a conventional front brake (& fork) and a small rear disk (or heat-sunk hub brake)
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Top_Bhoy » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:30 pm

Looking tentatively around recently for a sturdy lower to mid priced 700c disc wheelset for my commuter (which will need to accept a 28 - 32 tyre and be fitted with rack and panniers), there is a dearth in comparison to non-disc wheelsets. I'm disappointed in the availability and lack of choice if the truth be told.

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby MichaelB » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:29 pm

I thought long and hard about responding to the thread, as I saw many of the typical arguments against. Most of them I disagree with. YMYV

my history with discs.

I've been riding a road bike with disc brakes in one form or another since 2009. Once the pads were bedded in, it was the single best thing I did to my bike. Simple.

Regardless of whether you think you need them or not, reality is they just work better. PERIOD.

They work better in the dry, and they work in the wet. They work the same at the top of a steep or long (or both) descent or at the bottom. They work in the wet.

I have had emergency braking in the dry, wet and even on a steep downhill in the wet and never locked up or gone OTH.

They did save me several times.

They DO take more skill to look after them compared to rim brakes.

They are heavier typically than rim brakes.

They are less aero.

If you are a world class rider, probably the above 2 MAY have an impact. On all others, it's 4/5ths of SFA. No, I am not a racer and never will be.

Best advice is ignore what we say and try for yourself. In the wet and dry if you get the chance.

THEN make a decision. I make mine ages ago and have NEVER looked back

:-)

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:39 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Duck! wrote: Discs are much less prone to being affected by wet weather.
This is all. For the first foomteenth of a second (which can feel like a very long time).
This. I was a long time spartan, one hardtail MTB with different tyres in the shed covered all my riding needs. Loved my Juicy 7s to bits.

Then along came a roadie, she supplanted the MTB for commuting pretty quick. I could knock more than a few percent off commute time on 25mm rubber.

Until the first time it bucketed down mid commute and Bruce Smidsy wanted to share the road intimately. I started hunting for a disc equipped dropbar bike the next day.
Now the only rim brakes in my shed are on the Fixed bikes.

If that fraction of a second waiting for full bite saves you only once...
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Nobody » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:37 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Duck! wrote: Discs are much less prone to being affected by wet weather.
This is all. For the first foomteenth of a second (which can feel like a very long time).
Ironically my road bike is disc and my wet bike is an old rigid MTB with 2" Marathons and very good V brakes. It usually works quite well for just wet roads, which is the norm. But one day it was absolutely teeming rain in a thunder storm and the V brakes were virtually useless. Another time I had just rode through some longer wet grass, but then needed to brake quickly when I got back on the bike path. But of course there was almost nothing there in retardation when the brakes were applied. I had to apologize to the guy riding in the other direction for the close call.

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby chriso_29er » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:34 pm

My roadie is rim braked and I have a 29er that sometimes runs 28mm tyres for road use.
Love the discs, just hate adjusting the caliper everytime the wheels come off. Drives me mad and even stops me from changing to more suitable tyres for particular rides sometimes.

My road rim brakes are great (105) and work very well in both dry and wet. Only limitation I find is you realy need to be in the drops to pull them to full potential. Sometimes on the hoods they do feel like they could be better. I would be interested to try a hydro disc'd roadie on the hoods one day. But not sure any benefit would outweigh the complete annoyance I have for adjusting disc calipers.
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Warin » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:27 am

chriso_29er wrote:Love the discs, just hate adjusting the caliper everytime the wheels come off. Drives me mad and even stops me from changing to more suitable tyres for particular rides sometimes.
:?: Do others have this problem?

There are lots of different kinds of calipers ...
mechanical - single sided - push... relies on the disk flexing
mechanical - double sided - squeeze ... nicely squashes the disk between the two pads
hydraulic - similar to mechanical - double sided.

The only problem I can see from removing the wheels is on a hydraulic system ... that could displace the hydraulic pistons ... but a few operations of the brakes should return the pistons to their nominal position. Some care in wheel removal and replacement should minimise this problem...

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby MichaelB » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:02 am

Warin wrote:
chriso_29er wrote:Love the discs, just hate adjusting the caliper everytime the wheels come off. Drives me mad and even stops me from changing to more suitable tyres for particular rides sometimes.
:?: Do others have this problem?

......
Nope.

Shimano R685 levers and Zee calipers.

Different wheelsets (i.e. with different hubs) can cause an usse, as the disc mount interface is slightly different.

I even turn my bike upside down :shock: :shock:

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby bychosis » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:04 am

I was a late convert to MTB disc brakes, and really appreciated the difference in poor conditions. My current commuter/roadie is rim brakes, but over 20years old. The rim brakes work fine in the dry, but every now and then I get caught on a wet ride and wish for disc brakes on my roadie too. I could probably spend a bit upgrading the calipers/pads on the commuter to get better performance, but I'd rather go the whole hog and just get discs. At this time I'm hanging out for the standards to settle some more before I upgrade.
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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby MichaelB » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:51 pm

bychosis wrote: ..... At this time I'm hanging out for the standards to settle some more before I upgrade.
Be prepared for a long wait.

Bite the bullet and just get something. They all work great

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Re: Disc Vs Rim Braking System

Postby Bunged Knee » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:02 pm

If both rim or disc brakes fails. There`s an emergency solution to help you to slow down with foldable anchor. :)

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ID please? What ID? My seat tube ID is 27.2mm or 31.6mm depending on what bikes I ride today.thanks...

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