Disc Vs Rim Braking System

[Duck!]

I've ridden enough on Campag brakes to say they're good but not face-bendingly amazing.

[Comedian]

I've ridden enough on Campag brakes to say they're good but not face-bendingly amazing.

It's interesting hey? I moved completely from Shimano because of non existent parts backup and short lived components. I moved to campy as an experiment and found (by accident) how much better their brakes were. That was a bit over four years ago, and I'm still riding the same groupset, and can see no reason why I won't be for another four.

And then I get lambasted for not experiencing the latest Shimano.

[silentC]

Well yeah but it goes a bit further than that because what you are suggesting is that not only are Shimano brakes inferior, but they are deliberately manufactured in an inferior way in order to make their disc brakes more attractive. And your evidence for this is that, in your opinion, campy brakes are better. That is a long bow to draw.

[Comedian]

Well yeah but it goes a bit further than that because what you are suggesting is that not only are Shimano brakes inferior, but they are deliberately manufactured in an inferior way in order to make their disc brakes more attractive. And your evidence for this is that, in your opinion, campy brakes are better. That is a long bow to draw.

Have you ever tried them?

[silentC]

What has that got to do with it? You are saying that Shimano is deliberately making inferior rim brakes in order to sell more discs. Whether Campagnolo brakes are any good or not is irrelevant.

[Duck!]

I've ridden enough on Campag brakes to say they're good but not face-bendingly amazing.

It's interesting hey? I moved completely from Shimano because of non existent parts backup and short lived components. I moved to campy as an experiment and found (by accident) how much better their brakes were. That was a bit over four years ago, and I'm still riding the same groupset, and can see no reason why I won't be for another four.

And then I get lambasted for not experiencing the latest Shimano.

Correct... I have not used the latest Shimano brakes. But - nor have most of the people here ridden campag brakes? I've noted a lack of disclosure about that yet people comment.

A consistent theme through your commenting though is along the lines of "I've never ridden Product X, but that won't stop me loudly proclaiming it to be complete crap."

[Defy The Odds]

I am on the fence on rim vs disc brakes but one thing I would say is, wouldn't the compound of the pads make more of an impact than the brakes themselves in terms of wet weather braking?

I have SRAM Apex brakes and changed the pads to Swiss stops. I dont really ride in the rain but even with the stock pads I rode in a bit of drizzle and didn't have an issue with braking.

Personally, I think good pads and tyres goes a whole further in this argument then rim vs disc brakes.

Both rim and disc brakes have points for and against, but alot will probably depending on you and your riding style I guess

[silentC]

Sorry but no, discs are demonstrably better in the wet. This is usually offset by people saying "I don't ride in the rain anyway".

You can get rim brakes working well in the wet but they will never perform as well as discs and they are unlikely to perform as well as they do in dry conditions.

Once you have ridden a disc braked bike in the rain, as I did only yesterday, you will understand

[Comedian]

I've ridden enough on Campag brakes to say they're good but not face-bendingly amazing.

It's interesting hey? I moved completely from Shimano because of non existent parts backup and short lived components. I moved to campy as an experiment and found (by accident) how much better their brakes were. That was a bit over four years ago, and I'm still riding the same groupset, and can see no reason why I won't be for another four.

And then I get lambasted for not experiencing the latest Shimano.

Correct... I have not used the latest Shimano brakes. But - nor have most of the people here ridden campag brakes? I've noted a lack of disclosure about that yet people comment.

A consistent theme through your commenting though is along the lines of "I've never ridden Product X, but that won't stop me loudly proclaiming it to be complete crap."

Really? I'd argue that I've be far more open in my disclosure on what and what I haven't had experience with. I asked you for instance how many K's you've ridden on campy brakes and you were very vague. I said up front that I did 20k on ultegra brakes. All my miles since have been on campy.

I'd argue quite the opposite - that I made a statement that I've found campy brakes to be a lot stronger and all I've had is people who haven't ridden campy brakes telling me how wrong I am.

[Comedian]

What has that got to do with it? You are saying that Shimano is deliberately making inferior rim brakes in order to sell more discs. Whether Campagnolo brakes are any good or not is irrelevant.

Have you ridden campy brakes?

[Duck!]

I am on the fence on rim vs disc brakes but one thing I would say is, wouldn't the compound of the pads make more of an impact than the brakes themselves in terms of wet weather braking?

Not jut the pads, how they perform with the rim material plays a big part.

However the big thing against rim brakes in the wet is that because the braking surface comes close to the ground, it's much more prone to collecting water & crud, which then gets between the brake pads & rim, reducing the available friction. Of course discs aren't completely immune to getting wet, but being further up off the ground they do stay comparitively drier, which greatly aids their consistency in all conditions.

[silentC]

Have you ridden campy brakes?

No I have not. But I am not arguing that Campy brakes are better or worse than Shimano. I am pointing out to you that it is irrelevant to your assertion that Shimano are deliberately producing inferior rim brakes in order to boost sales of their disc brakes. It's an interesting hypothesis but in the words of Sir Humphrey Appleby, it would be a very brave move to deliberately sabotage one of your own products to make another of your products appear more desirable.

[Duck!]

It's interesting hey? I moved completely from Shimano because of non existent parts backup and short lived components. I moved to campy as an experiment and found (by accident) how much better their brakes were. That was a bit over four years ago, and I'm still riding the same groupset, and can see no reason why I won't be for another four.

And then I get lambasted for not experiencing the latest Shimano.

Correct... I have not used the latest Shimano brakes. But - nor have most of the people here ridden campag brakes? I've noted a lack of disclosure about that yet people comment.

A consistent theme through your commenting though is along the lines of "I've never ridden Product X, but that won't stop me loudly proclaiming it to be complete crap."

Really? I'd argue that I've be far more open in my disclosure on what and what I haven't had experience with. I asked you for instance how many K's you've ridden on campy brakes and you were very vague. I said up front that I did 20k on ultegra brakes. All my miles since have been on campy.

I'd argue quite the opposite - that I made a statement that I've found campy brakes to be a lot stronger and all I've had is people who haven't ridden campy brakes telling me how wrong I am.

Here's an excerpt of a bike review I wrote here a couple of years ago. The brakes are Camagnolo Athena...

The brakes, while quite good don't quite have the sheer bite of Shimano's top grabbers even from a couple of generations ago, but it's pretty rare that you'll find them even a tiny bit scary.

The test ride was 100km, but included the most technical road descent in my area, Arthurs Seat, with 18 hairpin corners in 3 km, at an average gradient around 9.5%.

[biker jk]

What has that got to do with it? You are saying that Shimano is deliberately making inferior rim brakes in order to sell more discs. Whether Campagnolo brakes are any good or not is irrelevant.

Have you ridden campy brakes?

I haven't but Ultegra rim brakes are better than Campy and my disc brakes considerably better than my Ultegra rim brakes.

Campy Chorus brakes: 8/10

Shimano Ultegra brakes: 10/10

http://road.cc/content/review/177288-campagnolo-chorus

http://road.cc/content/review/114669-sh ... 0-groupset

[warthog1]

I found a test of various brakes and sram hydraulic rim calipers were rated the best. Shimano 9000 and 5800 were the best cable operated ones.
I couldn't post it though cause they then went to bang on about how much better discs were.
Whatever

[RonK]

Here's an excerpt of a bike review I wrote here a couple of years ago. The brakes are Camagnolo Athena...

The brakes, while quite good don't quite have the sheer bite of Shimano's top grabbers even from a couple of generations ago, but it's pretty rare that you'll find them even a tiny bit scary.

Since you are comparing (EPS gruppo's aside) 4th ranked Athena to "Shimano's top grabbers" would I'd say that would be high praise for Athena.

[singlespeedscott]

I have found Shimano Ultegra brake calipers feel more powerful than Campagnolo Chorus but the Shimano's dont have the modulation of the Campagnolo's.

On steep downhills with tight turns I found that I could hold Campagnolo's just from lockup more easily than with Shimano's.The Shimano's just seemed to be more on/off the the Campagnolo's

[bychosis]

However the big thing against rim brakes in the wet is that because the braking surface comes close to the ground, it's much more prone to collecting water & crud, which then gets between the brake pads & rim, reducing the available friction. Of course discs aren't completely immune to getting wet, but being further up off the ground they do stay comparitively drier, which greatly aids their consistency in all conditions.

This. I rode through some wet grass last week on my rim braked roadie. Now I am aware it is a low end brake system, and does not have special pads but the short section of maybe 20m wasn't outside the limits most people set for their mowing roster and it was enough to wet the rims. End result was that stopping was more of a suggestion than a command once I applied the brakes shortly afterwards. I know that riding through said wet grass on my disc braked bike would have made no difference to the braking.

[Defy The Odds]

Sorry but no, discs are demonstrably better in the wet. This is usually offset by people saying "I don't ride in the rain anyway".

You can get rim brakes working well in the wet but they will never perform as well as discs and they are unlikely to perform as well as they do in dry conditions.

Once you have ridden a disc braked bike in the rain, as I did only yesterday, you will understand

Fair enough, not disputing the capability of discs, but the point I was trying to make is, are they a necessity for everyone? Example, if you commute, then they make a fairly strong case.

But for me, for example, most of my riding is fair weather riding. Occasionally, I will ride in drizzle but nothing drastic. In these conditions, rim brakes are more than sufficient.

[silentC]

Yes this is true. Like most people I have ridden around on rim brakes for years, even in the wet, and lived to tell the tale. And while most people will admit that their rim brakes were not quite as good in the wet as in the dry, it hasn't really been that big a deal for your average fair-weather rider.

On the other hand there are very few reasons NOT to have disc brakes, and as far as I can tell, outside of racing, these are limited to aesthetics and/or price. There is a perception that they are more difficult to maintain, more complicated, but that is a furphy.

This doesn't mean you should race out and by a disc brake bike, but I think the time is fast approaching where nearly ALL road bikes sold will have them. And I can't really see any reason to resist. Discs are at least as good as rim brakes, and often times better, so what is the problem?

[Arbuckle23]

I am in the market for a new bike and in the type of bike I am looking for (endurance) it seems the choice for non disc in becoming limited. Being one of the fair weather riders, I don't really care if my new bike will come with discs of not. My old hybrid bike has discs, my roady has rim brakes. The hybrid brakes stop the bike better, but my road bike stops good enough for my type of riding.

So it will depend on what the rest of the bike is like with brakes being a secondary consideration.

[warthog1]

If you have expensive wheels it becomes an issue as the wheels are now redundant on a disc braked machine.
If not it makes sense to get a disc braked bike.
Silent is correct. There are irresistible industry forces pushing their introduction and they will soon be the norm.

[Duck!]

If you have expensive wheels it becomes an issue as the wheels are now redundant on a disc braked machine.

Depends what they are; in some instances it can be possible to rebuild the rims onto disc brake hubs.

[Duck!]

Here's an excerpt of a bike review I wrote here a couple of years ago. The brakes are Camagnolo Athena...

The brakes, while quite good don't quite have the sheer bite of Shimano's top grabbers even from a couple of generations ago, but it's pretty rare that you'll find them even a tiny bit scary.

Since you are comparing (EPS gruppo's aside) 4th ranked Athena to "Shimano's top grabbers" would I'd say that would be high praise for Athena.

Note also that I referred to Shimano brakes from a couple of generations ago..... Using my 6600 Ultegras (which are now 12 years old) as a benchmark, the Athenas had better modulation, but no more absolute pulling power.

[warthog1]

Also for 5800, 6800, and 9000 calipers my understanding is the main functional difference is that 5800 (and6800?) have a touch more clearance but the are functionally the same, with the higher spec just being lighter.