Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

User avatar
familyguy
Posts: 8364
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Willoughby, NSW

Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby familyguy » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:11 pm

I'm in the throes of upgrading my commuter. Naturally, questions abound.

So, to chuck a digital cat among the pigeons, are through axles any advantage over traditional QR for road disc use (140mm to 160mm)? There are a lot of sharply-priced second hand deals on road/cross/commute/gravel bikes with traditional QR about.

With the growth (driven by...??) of through axles on road/cross/commute/gravel bikes, is the traditional QR/disc combo going to go the way of the dodo in the next five years?

I can understand the marginal stiffness improvement touted and tested (going by the articles I've found) for off-road use, but is it an overkill at this stage for road/light trail use for a gravel bike?

Jim

Velt
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:52 pm

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby Velt » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:22 pm

I have a QR disc defy, wish it had through axles. Makes lining up the pads after a wheel change annoying and you can sometimes here the discs rub when going hard out.

As its for your commuter you probably aren't looking to change wheels at all and you aren't going super hard so I would say QR is fine.

User avatar
ldrcycles
Posts: 9594
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:59 pm

I haven't used a road or CX bike with through axles but i have done some hard riding on a CX with QRs and never felt any lack of stiffness or security.

Re lining up the pads, i always just squeeze the brake lever before closing the QR lever, works every time.
"I must be rather keen on cycling"- Sir Hubert Opperman.

Road Record Association of Australia

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 9858
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby Duck! » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:03 pm

Through-axles are a bit more idiot proof for people who don't tighten Q/Rs up properly, but that's about the extent of the advantage.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

User avatar
familyguy
Posts: 8364
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Willoughby, NSW

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby familyguy » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:11 pm

I guess we're not going to run out of spares for traditional QR gear any time soon. Having used MTB with 160mm disc and QR front, I'm sure it would run stiffer for that application.

Thanks for the opinions.

Jim

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 6479
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby queequeg » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:34 pm

I'm running a traditional 9mm QR on the front, but a 10mm Thru Axle on the back, so it fits standard QR dropouts, but uses a DT Swiss 10mm RWS Axle. Not really a true Thru Axle, but it really stiffens up the back of the bike.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

robbo mcs
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:25 pm

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby robbo mcs » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:05 pm

I have both.

In terms of riding you are not going to notice the difference on a commuter bike.

If you are going to take a wheel off and on often, then the through axle is quicker, simpler and less to go wrong. Not that there is anything wrong with QR, but you can just do it quicker and with less fuss with through axle.

So for me, if I was going to take a wheel off everyday, eg to chain it up with the bike when parking etc, then I would pay a premium for through axle. If you are hardly ever going to take the wheel off, then go QR if it is cheaper.

User avatar
baabaa
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:47 am

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby baabaa » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:55 pm

Danger, Will Robinson, danger.
Doses of "opinion" following…..
Three disc frames all with steel forks and QR front and rear; four wheelsets which get the swapped around treatment. All run 32 spokes and 160 mm front and rear but still think I should be on 160 fronts and 140 rears.
With this investment cant see a move away from QR as I have what I need and to be honest, is really specked way above my needs. I also think I am soft on gear.
BUT do look at the hub outer flange i.e. the surface area where the inner drop out clamps onto. Up front, DT and Hope have large "donuts", shimano are or at least appear much smaller. In the rear Hope are large, while DT and Shimano are smaller but look much the same. Phils front and rear are like a big jam donut. SP dyno hub is also 9mm and could do with more meat as can take a bit of a fiddle to clamp firm and square, once in seem pretty firm on fire trials and single and double track.
I don’t know if this helps but….I am a road/light trail user and never had an issue even if I load up any of the bikes with frame bags. The phils are on my ss drop bar 29er (which I will use as my main commuter but will take around Manly Dam or do the Convict 100 on) as it is ss I use a bolt on in the rear.
Just consider the potential of having multi wheelset options from now and for the next 5 years forward. QR seems to be easy to find in high end stuff now, but companies like hope give you swap out options which also include bolt on front and rear.
If I could I would have all sets as bolt ons front and rear as different breeds of qr levers also seem to play better with different dropouts and not just same brand hub and levers but, that may put you right off the good old 9mm qr....

Calvin27
Posts: 2435
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:45 pm

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby Calvin27 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:52 am

I rekon thru axle is a superior system. Lines up the rotor the same each time and mechanically is much more secure. Theoretically it is stiffer, whether you can feel it or not is another story. I can't really feel it except on my dually which is is particularly noticeable on the rear.

Is it worth it. That depends. qr has had a long history, is not going away and is generally cheaper.

On a side note I found a bike with 'boost qr'. Go figure.
Heavy road bike
Cushy dirt bike
Very cushy dirt bike
Bike crushed by car (RIP)
No brakes bike
Ebike

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 14775
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:03 am

Agree with Calvin27 above - TA is a better system, but whether you can really tell or not, or it makes a difference, hard to say.

I've had QR's with disc roadies for last 8 or so years and not had an issue. Sometimes it moves in the dropouts a smidge, but that's it.

If I were to buy a new bike, I'd go for TA's, only because I think it's a better system rather than any performance benefit that I'd get.

User avatar
familyguy
Posts: 8364
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Willoughby, NSW

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby familyguy » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:08 am

It appears that the anecdotal "sure, they're good, but they're not THAT much better for road stuff" evidence will lead me to keep some my money in my pocket and source a bargain 9QR disc road/gravel ride.

Cheers.

Jim

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2442
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby silentC » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:45 am

I have TA on the front and QR on the back.

The reason I was given for the TA on the front is that the downwards force applied to the wheel under braking can cause the QR to come loose.
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

User avatar
familyguy
Posts: 8364
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Willoughby, NSW

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby familyguy » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:58 am

There is a claim that the "discs and front QR not playing nice" incidence was significantly over-reported as a problem. There's a handful of articles about it. There are also plenty of rebuttals. Do them up tight, check them regularly, avoid issue. My GT Zaskar has QR/disc front wheel, never been a problem. It does loosen, but you check it pre-ride and its a non-issue. Also, the design of dropouts have started to restrict this by facing down or forward, which results in the moment being directed towards the dropout, not out of the slot.

http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/techni ... ty-issues/

All things being equal and my pockets being deeper, TA is the way things are going though.

Jim

User avatar
Velo13
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:24 pm
Location: Lennox

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby Velo13 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:02 am

Disc brakes do result in different forces being transmitted thru the axle during braking. Thru axles were not designed to address this, but the stiffness issues of suspended frames and forks.

That said, we've all run QRs on disc MTB for 20 years, and survived.

Practically, thru axles are a better solution from a stiffness perspective, but that's all really (and it's not likely to be perceivable/needed on non suspension frame). They are still heavier and more of a pfaff. Rotor/pad alignment is the same on both.

My personal take on it is that it's industry driven, to convince you that the disc gravel/CX/road bike that you bought two years ago is superseded.

However, the market is going that way, and the stiffness may be welcome. I'd just buy whatever you get the best deal on (and avoid funky disc hub standards - Specialized have some weird ones out there on some models).

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 9858
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby Duck! » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:11 pm

silentC wrote:I have TA on the front and QR on the back.

The reason I was given for the TA on the front is that the downwards force applied to the wheel under braking can cause the QR to come loose.
Comes back to my previous comment; T/A is a bit more idiot proof than Q/R. That is all. Properly tightened quick release skewers are no less secure, and with very little practice, no harder to align in the brake. And they're actually easier to put in, because you hold the wheel by the ends of the skewer, use your thumbs on the fork tips to guide it in, then tighten it up. You have no guidance with a through axle, and you have to hold the wheel in just the right place to stuff the axle through.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

mikgit
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby mikgit » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:05 am

I dunno if they're idiot proof, I could have chucked my bike out the door today, flapping around with the rear TA, took me a good 10 minutes geto get the damn thing back in. Garh. Personally I'll take QR any day of the week.
Fat Chance Yo Eddy 2.2, Intense Sniper XC Pro, Look 675, Cervelo R3, GT Xizang, GT Zaskar, Yeti ARC, DiamondBack Apex

Calvin27
Posts: 2435
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:45 pm

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby Calvin27 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:13 am

mikgit wrote:I dunno if they're idiot proof, I could have chucked my bike out the door today, flapping around with the rear TA, took me a good 10 minutes geto get the damn thing back in. Garh. Personally I'll take QR any day of the week.
You can't be serious? 10 minutes? No exaggeration?
Heavy road bike
Cushy dirt bike
Very cushy dirt bike
Bike crushed by car (RIP)
No brakes bike
Ebike

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2442
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby silentC » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:55 am

As mentioned I have QR on the back and TA on the front. I don't find either of them particularly difficult or fiddly when on the ground. When on the stand, I find the QR slightly more fiddly because you need to be holding the wheel up into the drop outs. I usually loosen and tighten again when it's on the ground to make sure. Might be something to do with the shape of the fork ends but I never have any problem locating the TA either on the ground or in the air.
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

User avatar
kb
Posts: 2570
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:22 pm

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby kb » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:07 pm

Calvin27 wrote:
mikgit wrote:I dunno if they're idiot proof, I could have chucked my bike out the door today, flapping around with the rear TA, took me a good 10 minutes geto get the damn thing back in. Garh. Personally I'll take QR any day of the week.
You can't be serious? 10 minutes? No exaggeration?
Took me 10 minutes to take my wheel out the first time. I didn't realise I had to rotate the lever, then settle it into a notch to unwind. A bit obvious in retrospect though :-)
Image

mikgit
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby mikgit » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:57 pm

Calvin27 wrote:
mikgit wrote:I dunno if they're idiot proof, I could have chucked my bike out the door today, flapping around with the rear TA, took me a good 10 minutes geto get the damn thing back in. Garh. Personally I'll take QR any day of the week.
You can't be serious? 10 minutes? No exaggeration?
Actually probably longer, damn it was p'ing me off, it just wouldn't thread in the other side, could't get it aligned for some bonkers reason and it was pushing the frame apart instead of threading in. Not that I haven't taken the wheel out before, just wasn't working.
Fat Chance Yo Eddy 2.2, Intense Sniper XC Pro, Look 675, Cervelo R3, GT Xizang, GT Zaskar, Yeti ARC, DiamondBack Apex

Calvin27
Posts: 2435
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:45 pm

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby Calvin27 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:08 pm

I did have a mate not get it in for half an hour. Turns out his chinese carbon frame was not aligned. My first time I had to go back to the shop and ask them how to undo the front fork so I could fit the bike in my car lol. Aside from that it's just as fast as qr for me.
Heavy road bike
Cushy dirt bike
Very cushy dirt bike
Bike crushed by car (RIP)
No brakes bike
Ebike

User avatar
silentbutdeadly
Posts: 2294
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:52 am
Location: Somewhere flat...

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby silentbutdeadly » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:30 pm

My disc wheeled gravel bike (Niner RLT) and the back ends of both my MTB's run QR's that think they are TA's . They're DT Swiss RWS skewers and after trying quite a number of traditional and non traditional QR, these are the only QRs I'd use.

They've never come loose or required mid ride readjustment and they hang onto and control the squirm of a rigid carbon fork (or the back end of a steel framed MTB) much better than a normal QR.

Thru axles are simpler and a bit stiffer but if all you have is a 9mm QR dropout then the RWS is the skewer I'd go for.
Ours is not to reason why...merely to point and giggle

mikgit
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby mikgit » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:37 pm

haha, probably the curmugion in me coming out I guess, but I have 1 set of road wheels that have the DT RWS QR and I don't like them. I guess they will never accident;y come loose, but then I've not had that with a normal QR. MY FS bike rear TA is also a DT one with the same system, the one which I have so much issues with.
Fat Chance Yo Eddy 2.2, Intense Sniper XC Pro, Look 675, Cervelo R3, GT Xizang, GT Zaskar, Yeti ARC, DiamondBack Apex

Zippy7
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 8:33 am
Location: Sydney, NSW

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby Zippy7 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:35 pm

If you're happy with QR and disc, stay with it.

I have a Giant Defy with disc and QR - no issues with disc rub/flex, no hassles taking wheels on/off (front or rear go on quickly and easily). Same goes for a Silverback bike I have.
I had a Specialized Sirrus Carbon with QR and disc - no disc rub/flex, but it was a pain in the proverbial to line up the rear wheel and get it back in (now I believe it was just bad design, due to not a lot of room around the rear axle area to let you line it up).

Before buying my Defy, I test rode the new Specialized Roubaix (with the future shock). TA and disc.
I had disc rub for the 1hr test ride. I informed them of this, they made an adjustment, and it still had disc rub when I took it out again.

From what I gather, there might be an advantage of TA, but it hasn't shown itself to me. I don't get disc rub on my Defy with QR.

Not sure if all TA are cross compatible? Is a Focus RAT compatible with the Cervelo TA and Giant TA? I have no idea, but I suspect the fancy names indicate there isn't a clear standard they are all using?
Successful trades : Rheicel, Je, wgc138, 2ndeffort, celeste boy, rodneycc

User avatar
singlespeedscott
Posts: 5510
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:35 pm
Location: Elimbah, Queensland

Re: Through axle vs 9mm QR for road disc use

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:25 pm

TA are the future but like many other posters I don't think they are necessary on a road bike.

As already stated they were intended to stiffen up suspension forks and suspended rear ends on mtbs.

20 years ago we had no issues with discs and QR. the case hasn't changed today. Maybe cyclists are less mechanically minded these days and need everything fool proof.
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users