I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14775
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby MichaelB » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:42 am
- Paddles
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:40 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby Paddles » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:19 am
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9858
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby Duck! » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:14 pm
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14775
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby MichaelB » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:14 pm
And that leads to problems of another nature as well. Smaller profile bearings by their nature have smaller 'balls' (hope that comes out right .... ) which then tend to have a shorter life.Duck! wrote:BB86 and BB386 are NOT ths same. Both have an 86mm wide shell, but 386 has a larger bore to accommodate cranks with a 30mm spindle. BB86 is designed for 24mm spindles. However Rotor and maybe others do produce a bottom bracket with low-profile bearings that allows a BB386 crank to fit in a BB86 frame.
- Paddles
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:40 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby Paddles » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:17 pm
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14775
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby MichaelB » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:13 pm
JRA (no, really !!) and felt something odd as I was pedalling along, getting me out of my annoyance and planning on what to do with the new creaking saddle ...
After some looking, thinking, head scratching and several attempts to sort it out. Noticed something on the DS dropout.
Couldn't be. A crack
Yep. DS dropout fully cracked through. 11 months and 5,736km later, the Kinesis 4S Disc frameset dead.
PFBB.
Contacted Pushys and sent email re warranty.
Pending their response, may be redoing that or building the Volagi Liscio again ....
NOT. HAPPY. JAN.
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9858
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby Duck! » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:48 pm
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14775
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby MichaelB » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:34 am
Because of the frame with the broken dropout (whilst I wait for the outcome of warranty replacement discussions with Pushys/Kinesis supplier), now will look to using the BB30 frame (Volagi Liscio) in shed to build up, and hence on the hunt for a BB for a 386EVO crank in a BB30 frame (original intent for this thread).Duck! wrote:I'm trying really hard but failing to see what relevance a broken dropout has to bottom bracket formats....
Any experience with either Tripeak Or Enduro Torqtite screw together adaptors ?
Can get either from DIYMTB, but Tripeak is $145 for steel bearings and Enduro is $265 for SS bearings. Both are screw together, but is the Enduro $120 better ?
EDIT : Reworded the reply to make more sense
- Paddles
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:40 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby Paddles » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:56 pm
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14775
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby MichaelB » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:49 pm
Not to sure if they have one to fit yours.
Another one with good ratings are Hawk Racing.
C-Bear are also well regarded
- Paddles
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:40 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby Paddles » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:11 pm
- 10speedsemiracer
- Posts: 4904
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:38 pm
- Location: Back on the Tools .. when I'm not in the office
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:28 pm
- Paddles
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:40 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby Paddles » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:32 pm
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14775
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby MichaelB » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:09 am
- g-boaf
- Posts: 21319
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby g-boaf » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:03 am
The next frame I'm going for uses BB30 - so the solution to using Shimano cranks is a Kogel 30mm-24mm bottom bracket, that avoids any extra step down adapters. It does mean a ceramic bottom bracket, on the plus side. Hopefully I've navigated the minefield correctly.
- Paddles
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:40 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby Paddles » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:44 am
-
- Posts: 5131
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:41 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby rkelsen » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:37 am
It's good to hear that from someone in the know.Duck! wrote:Propensity for creaking is very much related to the frame manufacturers' attention to tolerances (but press-fit in all its variations can take a long walk off a short pier).
It is disappointing to see that so many manufacturers have adopted the press-fit bottom bracket system. Most decent bikes you look at will have this anti-feature.
Do you think we're past the point of no return? Will screw-in bottom brackets be brought back?
I guess the manufacturer's logic is that by the time the bearings wear out you're due for a new frame anyway.
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14775
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby MichaelB » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:09 pm
Unless they can make it cheaper, then its a big NO. The whole idea of the press fit BB's was reduced cost for the manufacturer. That's it. All other posturing/reasoning is marketing guff.rkelsen wrote: ....
Do you think we're past the point of no return? Will screw-in bottom brackets be brought back?
....
-
- Posts: 5131
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:41 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby rkelsen » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Well, they probably can't make it cheaper but what about the cost of re-work? The manufacturers would have to be spending a lot of time & money fixing the issues with these things.MichaelB wrote:Unless they can make it cheaper, then its a big NO. The whole idea of the press fit BB's was reduced cost for the manufacturer. That's it. All other posturing/reasoning is marketing guff.
And there seems to be a lot of discontent around. A Google search for "press fit bb problem" yields 41,300,000 results...
EDIT: This guy reckons he spoke with some engineers who told him the opposite: That a press-fit BB costs significantly more because of the level of precision required, both in terms of manufacturing the frame and then installing the bearing cartridges:
I might be living under a rock, but I don't know who he is or if his opinion should matter. What he said certainly makes sense to me.
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14775
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby MichaelB » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:30 pm
To have a threaded BB, it takes multiple processes and extra steps to make the machined thread.
Most manufacturers also won’t temedy the creaking BB’s as it’s hard to prove it’s their issue.
-
- Posts: 2435
- Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:45 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby Calvin27 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:50 pm
There is no way press fit costs less than threaded regardless of what cannondale says lol. Higher tolerance is certainly a consideration but if you are having tolerance issues with a hollow circle cutout - then I'm not holding much hope for a helical thread!rkelsen wrote:
I might be living under a rock, but I don't know who he is or if his opinion should matter. What he said certainly makes sense to me.
I have 2 bikes with BB30 and yeah they are !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !!. I rekon the cannondale engineer that 'invented' it had shares in loctite.
Cushy dirt bike
Very cushy dirt bike
Bike crushed by car (RIP)
No brakes bike
Ebike
- g-boaf
- Posts: 21319
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby g-boaf » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:38 pm
All of my road bikes have press fit bottom brackets (either Shimano SM-BB92-41B or SRAM for BBRight) and none of them are creaking. They've all got decent kms on them. Do any of your bikes have this creaking problem? I'm not doubting that it can happen - but just strange that with four different road bikes, none of them are causing me this trouble.rkelsen wrote:It's good to hear that from someone in the know.Duck! wrote:Propensity for creaking is very much related to the frame manufacturers' attention to tolerances (but press-fit in all its variations can take a long walk off a short pier).
It is disappointing to see that so many manufacturers have adopted the press-fit bottom bracket system. Most decent bikes you look at will have this anti-feature.
Do you think we're past the point of no return? Will screw-in bottom brackets be brought back?
I guess the manufacturer's logic is that by the time the bearings wear out you're due for a new frame anyway.
In any case, I have the tools to change the bottom brackets if they need replacement.
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9858
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby Duck! » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:58 pm
With aluminium frames it's not that much different, as the only additional step is cutting the thread, or the groves for the circlips that support the bearings in a BB30 shell.Calvin27 wrote: There is no way press fit costs less than threaded regardless of what cannondale says lol. Higher tolerance is certainly a consideration but if you are having tolerance issues with a hollow circle cutout - then I'm not holding much hope for a helical thread!
But when it comes to carbon frame manufacturing, the extra processes quickly add up.. A BB86, 386, PF30 or even proprietary systems such as Trek's BB90 need little more than a properly-toleranced plug to form the bottom bracket tube around. Very simple. However threaded and BB30 shells need to have an aluminium liner sleeve manufactured first, which then has the frame formed around and bonded to it. These liners need to be cut to the approriate length, faced, bored to spec, threads tapped and then externally ground to remove any oxide to ensure proper bonding to the carbon frame, and then glued in.
Some early press-fit frames had thin-walled aluminium liners bonded in, but this process in now pretty rare.
-
- Posts: 5131
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:41 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby rkelsen » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:08 pm
No, but I don't own a press fit BB.g-boaf wrote:Do any of your bikes have this creaking problem?
- g-boaf
- Posts: 21319
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm
Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr
Postby g-boaf » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:19 pm
The bike I’m riding the most at the moment would have 10,000km on it with the current bottom bracket- no creaks. It runs smoothly and quiet.rkelsen wrote:No, but I don't own a press fit BB.g-boaf wrote:Do any of your bikes have this creaking problem?
Like I said, I’m sure it does happen, just surprised that with four bikes I have, all of them don’t have this problem.
Return to “Buying a bike / parts”
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Cycling Brands
- Cannondale
- Garmin
- Giant
- Shimano
- Trek
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot]
- All times are UTC+11:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.