The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
- uart
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby uart » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:56 am
There were three of us cycling together, not particularly fast (prolly only 15 - 20 km/h) and the woman was walking nice and straight in the (marked) left hand side of the path. There were no turns or exits or anything nearby, so my instinct was to pass at a relatively slow speed and not to bother with the bell. We were all single file and there was plenty of room on the other side of the path.
As I was just about to pass, the two other cyclists (behind me) both started belling and the woman immediately changed tack, from going nice and straight on the left to a sudden movement to the right of the path. It was a near miss for me, but I was going quite slow by this time anyway. Then I looked back and the other two riders were tangled up with her, no actual impact fortunately, but just the three of them all stopped in a bunch.
The woman (who didn't say anything but looked like she mightn't have spoken much/any English anyway) looked pretty pissed off. My guess is that she simply assumed that all the belling must have meant that they wanted her to move out of their way. That is, that they wanted her to do something different to what she was presently doing. In fact, of course, they wanted her to keep doing as she was but just to warn her that they were passing.
Just wondering if people here routinely bell all peds that they are about to pass on shared paths, or only ones that are on the wrong side or somehow behaving erratically?
-
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
- Location: Perth, WA
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby NASHIE » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:12 am
-
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:26 am
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby Duck18 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:25 am
-
- Posts: 385
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:10 pm
- Location: On the saddle (mostly in nsw)
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby LateStarter » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:36 am
2008 Cannondale Touring 2, 2013 Vivente World Randonneur, 2015 Lynskey Sportive Disc
- uart
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby uart » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:50 am
Yeah, particularly when there is a large group (as I sometimes travel in) and they all start belling at the same time.NASHIE wrote:As per your actions, slow for peds, but no bell required. The mad ding ding ding that some riders do, just sounds like a ‘ get out of my way i’m coming through’
One problem however, is that these days some peds get upset if you don't bell them. I've even seen one or two become quite aggressive over this.
The above seems to be a relatively recent thing though. I only really noticed a surge in this behavior after recent anti cyclist roads minister here in NSW (Duncan Gay), massively increased penalties for cyclists and there was a lot of publicity at the time about cyclists being required to have a bell.
I think some of this reaction is just an anti cyclist thing - were some people will take any opportunity that they can to jump on any perceived misdeed that they can find with a cyclist. They know it's the law that a cyclist must have a bell, so they assume that it's the law that they must use them when passing, and can become aggressive if you don't.
-
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
- Location: Perth, WA
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby NASHIE » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:04 am
I guess the older generation spend more time walking and getting shaved by cyclist wears thin, so we are all the bad guys. Let them have a rant and move on.
-
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
- Location: Perth, WA
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby NASHIE » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:14 am
- g-boaf
- Posts: 21497
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby g-boaf » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:07 pm
Sometimes you just have to stop and have a conversation with them. I always slow down and call out that I'm passing. I never just ding a bell and assume everyone will move out of the way like some of the more vocal proponents of bells.NASHIE wrote:I find the ‘where’s your bell’ comes from older gents on occasion. And get the impression even if you did bell them, all would get is a dirty look.
I guess the older generation spend more time walking and getting shaved by cyclist wears thin, so we are all the bad guys. Let them have a rant and move on.
- foo on patrol
- Posts: 9073
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:12 am
- Location: Sanstone Point QLD
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby foo on patrol » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:28 pm
Foo
Goal 6000km
-
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby AdelaidePeter » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:33 pm
The problem, most likely, is that they rang their bells too late, when they were too close to the woman. The trick to bell use is to do it well back, both to not startle the pedestrian, and to give plenty of time to react, if necessary.uart wrote: As I was just about to pass, the two other cyclists (behind me) both started belling and the woman immediately changed tack,
I usually ring my bell for pedestrians. The exception is if the path is wide and they are walking very predictably. I'll always ring my bell if it's going to be a fairly close pass.
- uart
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby uart » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:38 pm
That's interesting. I've almost exclusively seen that reaction in younger (young to middle aged) pedestrians.NASHIE wrote:I find the ‘where’s your bell’ comes from older gents on occasion.
- Ross
- Posts: 5742
- Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:53 pm
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby Ross » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:03 pm
I didn't ding my bell one time coming up behind a guy walking his (unleashed) dog and he had a go at me for not ringing the bell and informing me it was the law to do it. I stopped and "challenged" him back saying I shouldn't have to ring the bell if his dog was leashed and not wandering all over the path, you know, like the law says it should be. The coversation just kept going around in circles and neither of us were seeing the other's POV (so that may of made me as bad as him? My view was my "crime" of not ringing the bell was more minor than letting his unleashed dog poop everywhere and potentially get under my wheel/attack me/other path user) so I just kept riding. I did see him again a couple of days later and I (childishly ) made sure to ring my bell loudly and multiple times as I was coming up behind him. Received some filthy looks in return. C'est la vie.
For some reason a high number of Asian people don't react to the bell (not wearing headphones/earbuds), but don't get startled when I pass. I think maybe it is in their culture to have cyclists (and possibly motorists) ride/drive close to them in the countries where they are from. Though not all of these Asian people would be born o/s, a number would be born here in Austtralia and possibly never been to their parents' home country to know what the culture is like, so I have probably just debunked my own theory!
- uart
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby uart » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:08 pm
I'm not sure if it is still the law now, but when I first got my car license in 1977, it was still the law that you were supposed to sound your horn before passing any other vehicle. It was the law, but my driving instructor said that nobody does it, and I shouldn't do it either.
- uart
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby uart » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:18 pm
Not singling out Asians (though they are included), but in some suburbs were I ride that there are a lot of people from overseas, it bugs the crap out of me that they always walk on the right hand side of the track.Ross wrote: For some reason a high number of Asian people don't react to the bell (not wearing headphones/earbuds), but don't get startled when I pass. I think maybe it is in their culture to have cyclists (and possibly motorists) ride/drive close to them in the countries where they are from. Though not all of these Asian people would be born o/s, a number would be born here in Australia and possibly never been to their parents' home country to know what the culture is like, so I have probably just debunked my own theory!
In some cases, when they are coming towards me, I just move over to the wrong side (my RHS) of the track to pass them. Others times however, when I'm not feeling so accommodating, I just slow down but stay on the correct side of the track riding slowly right towards them. You know what, almost invariably when I do this, they don't react by moving to the correct side of the track (their left). Instead they move further and further to their right hand side (my left) and when I keep on coming they eventually step completely off the side of the path to let me through - and then give me a dirty look as if to say "why did you just deliberately run me off the track. Every time - seriously!
-
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby AdelaidePeter » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:44 pm
The law, at least in SA, is that cyclists are required to always give way to pedestrians on a shared path. So in the situation you describe, you should pass on the right.uart wrote: In some cases, when they are coming towards me, I just move over to the wrong side (my RHS) of the track to pass them. Others times however, when I'm not feeling so accommodating, I just slow down but stay on the correct side of the track riding slowly right towards them. You know what, almost invariably when I do this, they don't react by moving to the correct side of the track (their left). Instead they move further and further to their right hand side (my left) and when I keep on coming they eventually step completely off the side of the path to let me through - and then give me a dirty look as if to say "why did you just deliberately run me off the track. Every time - seriously!
-
- Posts: 385
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:10 pm
- Location: On the saddle (mostly in nsw)
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby LateStarter » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:51 pm
No the NSW regulation says "Bicycle riders must not ride a bicycle that does not have at least one working brake and a fully functioning bell, horn, or similar warning device" but does not mention any circumstances as to when or how it must be used, silly silly lawuart wrote:My understanding of the law is that you are required to ring the bell to "warn of danger". The law however does not spell out exactly what does and doesn't constitute such a danger.
2008 Cannondale Touring 2, 2013 Vivente World Randonneur, 2015 Lynskey Sportive Disc
- StevOz
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:37 pm
- Location: Dunsborough, WA.
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby StevOz » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:20 pm
Make that 3 years plus..StevOz wrote:Better yet less then $100, actually got it for $77 on special, plenty of volume for the ride and added safety features, pedestrian hear me coming and actually move over, just wins!
Review : http://www.cnet.com/au/products/ue-roll/
Still works for me and going strong 2 years on...
- uart
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby uart » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:43 pm
Hi Peter, to obey that law it is only necessary that I don't run into the pedestrian, it is not necessary that I move to the wrong side of the path to do so. Remember I said that I slow right down, I can stop if necessary, and I WILL NOT run into them. But if it comes to me stopping then they will have to go around and I can remind them while doing so that in Australia we stay on the left.AdelaidePeter wrote: The law, at least in SA, is that cyclists are required to always give way to pedestrians on a shared path. So in the situation you describe, you should pass on the right.
Think of a similar situation with a pedestrian and a car. The pedestrian is walking in clear visibility down a long straight road directly in the path of an oncoming car. The pedestrian can see the car coming but keeps on walking towards it. The driver cannot run over the pedestrian, but neither are they compelled to cross to the wrong side of the road either. Simply slowing and/or stopping is enough.
-
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:22 pm
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby Az0r_au » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:44 am
Your friends were ringing their bells wayyyy too late. Do it when you're still 5-10 seconds away from the pedestrian. This way they won't be startled because the noise is far enough away and they have enough time to see you and move out of your path (and reign in any dog leashes etc)uart wrote:As I was just about to pass, the two other cyclists (behind me) both started belling and the woman immediately changed tack, from going nice and straight on the left to a sudden movement to the right of the path. It was a near miss for me, but I was going quite slow by this time anyway. Then I looked back and the other two riders were tangled up with her, no actual impact fortunately, but just the three of them all stopped in a bunch.
-
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby AdelaidePeter » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:31 am
I'm not sure there is a law telling pedestrians which side to walk. I don't see the point of all this, when you can just ride around them.uart wrote:Hi Peter, to obey that law it is only necessary that I don't run into the pedestrian, it is not necessary that I move to the wrong side of the path to do so. Remember I said that I slow right down, I can stop if necessary, and I WILL NOT run into them. But if it comes to me stopping then they will have to go around and I can remind them while doing so that in Australia we stay on the left.AdelaidePeter wrote: The law, at least in SA, is that cyclists are required to always give way to pedestrians on a shared path. So in the situation you describe, you should pass on the right.
- uart
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby uart » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:34 am
Yeah I know it sounds petty, because it totally is. And it's not something that I regularly do, but every now and then I get pee'd off and want to make a point.AdelaidePeter wrote: I'm not sure there is a law telling pedestrians which side to walk. I don't see the point of all this, when you can just ride around them.
I'm not talking about crowded paths where people are everywhere either, I expect it then. I'm talking about riding along a long straight path, with marked lanes, in broad daylight, and the only two people on the track are me and Mr Dumbass. Him 200m away and walking straight down the wrong side of the path towards me, looking at me all the way. I slow down and give him a ton of time to move to the correct side of the path, but there is just no way that he can figure that out.
Pedestrians walking on the wrong side of shared paths with marked lanes likes that are a total nuisance. They are a nuisance to both cyclists and to other pedestrians.
- uart
- Posts: 3214
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby uart » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:45 am
You are totally correct there. This is where a sufficiently loud bell is important. Too far back and they wont hear it, too close and they don't have time to react. But speed is an important factor here too, the slower your speed then the more time for pedestrians to react. Sometimes on busy paths you just have to ride slowly.Az0r_au wrote: Your friends were ringing their bells wayyyy too late. Do it when you're still 5-10 seconds away from the pedestrian. This way they won't be startled because the noise is far enough away and they have enough time to see you and move out of your path (and reign in any dog leashes etc)
In this case however I think that my two friends were a little further back than I had anticipated. I was probably 20m ahead of them and about 5m behind the pedestrian when they started belling. That meant that about 1 or 2 seconds later, just as I was passing, she started moving rapidly to the wrong side of the track.
- Howzat
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:08 pm
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby Howzat » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:53 pm
You should have rung your bell. It means "bike approaching". The walkers who don't know what it means will pick it up if more people on bikes would ring their bells in good time, instead of trying to ride by silently.uart wrote:I was probably 20m ahead of them and about 5m behind the pedestrian when they started belling. That meant that about 1 or 2 seconds later, just as I was passing, she started moving rapidly to the wrong side of the track.
If you're not convinced pedestrians prefer to hear bells from people on bikes - take a walk on a shared path!
-
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:22 pm
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby Az0r_au » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:02 pm
Totally agree. Plus you give yourself the best chance of avoiding any potential accident if they DO decide to act eratically.uart wrote: But speed is an important factor here too, the slower your speed then the more time for pedestrians to react. Sometimes on busy paths you just have to ride slowly.
Or walk along one with loud headphones in to simulate being unable to hear the bell. It's spooky.If you're not convinced pedestrians prefer to hear bells from people on bikes - take a walk on a shared path!
- find_bruce
- Moderator
- Posts: 10615
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: The age old question. To bell or not to bell? (pedestrians).
Postby find_bruce » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:08 am
That would be from the big book of made up rules. Apart from anything else a bell is entirely useless for those hard of hearing, whether due to old age or because they are an iPlodHowzat wrote:You should have rung your bell. It means "bike approaching". The walkers who don't know what it means will pick it up if more people on bikes would ring their bells in good time, instead of trying to ride by silently.
If you're not convinced pedestrians prefer to hear bells from people on bikes - take a walk on a shared path!
Despite popular opinion you are not required to have a bell but a "warning device", which may be a bell but can also be a horn or similar. There is no legal requirement to use it at any time but it is an offence to use it unnecessarily. This is primarily because unnecessary use takes away any impact as a warning.
My warning device is a horn at ~130dB & no I do not use it merely because I am passing a pedestrian. I always pass safely & for the most part quietly. If there is a need to communicate with another person I find my voice to be far more effective.
Return to “General Cycling Discussion”
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.