Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
- MattyK
- Posts: 3252
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:07 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby MattyK » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:53 pm
My wife is doing a ride event in Tassie next year, will be hitting quite a few hills. She's training but not a super strong rider. So some lower gears might be nice.
Bike has Ultegra 6700 with a short cage rear d, 50/34 x 12-28
Second to a cup of concrete, what's the best (read cheapest) option for getting some extra low gears? (without compromising top end)
I think 30T is as big a cassette as possible without changing anything else (new chain assumed).
Could a 32 or 34T cassette work with a hanger extension link? Or is the short cage derailleur (capacity) the limitation?
The only 10-speed medium cage derailleurs I can see still available are 105 5700. That would open up more options at the expense of the additional... expense.
Thanks! (Quack quack!)
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9858
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Duck! » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:25 pm
The second issue of hanger extenders is that they bugger up the shifting in the smaller sprockets. The derailleur slants up/down at a certain angle through its travel to match the gradient of the cassettes it's supposed to work with. Oversized cassettes change the gradient relative to the derailleur path too much, so lowering it to clear the big sprocket means the top derailleur pulley moves further away from the sprockets as you shift to the smaller ones, so the chain tends to flex rather than shift across the gears.
The absolute best, but definitely not cheap way to gain proper low gears without losing the top end is to convert to a triple-ring crank, but that requires both derailleurs (longer rear is essential for the necessary chain length for the triple, and the front needs a deeper cage for the third ring), crank and left shifter.
- MattyK
- Posts: 3252
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:07 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby MattyK » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:26 am
Thanks for the reply.Duck! wrote:the pre-update version will not happily take larger than 28 even in longer form. If it's a late version it WILL fit the 32,
Is there any easy way to identify the difference? Bike was bought in 2014 (Merida Scultura 905)
-
- Posts: 1046
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:41 pm
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby march83 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:49 am
I ride something similar on my daily commuter. It's 1x with an 11-42 rear. In your case 11-36 would probably be the option to keep total chain length sensible. Wolftooth has some decent articles on their website about 2x combinations that work with their tanpans and you definitely want to go through them to pick a combo that actually works.
- redsonic
- Posts: 1772
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:08 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby redsonic » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:05 pm
I think the model number on the back will be RD6700 A. The older type didn't have the A on it.MattyK wrote:Thanks for the reply.Duck! wrote:the pre-update version will not happily take larger than 28 even in longer form. If it's a late version it WILL fit the 32,
Is there any easy way to identify the difference? Bike was bought in 2014 (Merida Scultura 905)
-
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 9:12 pm
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Ivanerrol » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:30 pm
On one bike I'm running a 50/34 with 4700 mid cage with no issues with the 11 - 32 installed - except using 34/32 is very slow.
4700 wont work with 6700 shifters.
Another bike I use the same wheel and rear cassette. Runs 52/39 front with 5700 mid cage.
Needed to lengthen the chain by 2 links to run this combo.
Big jump between gears though.
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9858
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Duck! » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:15 pm
Although known as both 6700A and 6701, I don't think the ID stamping was changed to suit, just to be difficult. Some examples had 30T stamped on the top of the outer cage plate, but that doesn't appear to have been consistent, so its absence isn't necessarily a positive indicator of an early model. If the bike was purchased new it will be the later model; given the change was made mid-2012 for MY13, anything built after then will have the updated version.redsonic wrote:I think the model number on the back will be RD6700 A. The older type didn't have the A on it.MattyK wrote:Thanks for the reply.Duck! wrote:the pre-update version will not happily take larger than 28 even in longer form. If it's a late version it WILL fit the 32,
Is there any easy way to identify the difference? Bike was bought in 2014 (Merida Scultura 905)
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9858
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Duck! » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:22 pm
4700 is designed to take a 34T sprocket. Even the shortie will do it. The longer option is beacuse the Tiagra series still includes a triple-ring option. But as you correctly say, it won't work with other 10-sp. shifters.Ivanerrol wrote:I have a rear wheel with an 11 - 32 Cassette (The cassette alone weighs 500 grams).
On one bike I'm running a 50/34 with 4700 mid cage with no issues with the 11 - 32 installed - except using 34/32 is very slow.
4700 wont work with 6700 shifters.
Or use a "9-sp." Shadow-type MTB derailleur which works on the same cable pull ratio as road 10-sp, so no mucking around with ratio converters, and they'll play with up to 40T sprockets (although officially only 36T).march83 wrote:Not sure on pricing, but a tanpan from wolftooth, a cheap Shimano MTB rear derr (SLX?), a MTB cassette like a Shimano 11-36 or sunrace 11-42 or 11-46 and a new chain would provide a massive range.
-
- Posts: 1156
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:32 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby caneye » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:25 pm
I then added a wolf tooth roadlink and used it with a 32T cassette with no dramas at all.
- Bentnose
- Posts: 1327
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:00 am
- Location: N/E suburbs Melbourne, Victoria
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Bentnose » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:20 am
- MattyK
- Posts: 3252
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:07 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby MattyK » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:55 pm
Good news, 30T identifiedDuck! wrote:Although known as both 6700A and 6701, I don't think the ID stamping was changed to suit, just to be difficult. Some examples had 30T stamped on the top of the outer cage plate, but that doesn't appear to have been consistent, so its absence isn't necessarily a positive indicator of an early model. If the bike was purchased new it will be the later model; given the change was made mid-2012 for MY13, anything built after then will have the updated version.
For those who want to know what to look for:
- antigee
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:58 am
- Location: just off the Yarra Trail but not lurking in the bushes
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby antigee » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:16 pm
same on my most often ridden 10speed 105 STI's triple mtb touring 26-36-48 with a 36 outback and a 9speed XT rear mechBentnose wrote:I had a 9 speed xt with 11-36 10 speed slx cassette coupled with 5700 brothers, all worked fine. I've since gone to a triple on the front 26-36-48, still the same on the rear, all works though that front crank and rings seems to be a bit harder to get these days
agree had to scrape around to find triple STI's and the triple groupset after pilot error bent a crank and took out an STI
to sort of future proof have newer bike use for gravel touring and that has 10speed 105 STI's with an XT double chainset 40/24 and 36 outback with a 9speed mtb mech and shifts very cleanly
so to answer OP reckon good way of getting what want would be a 9speed MTB mech with an 11-36 cassette and the rest as is and no link adaptor - google tells me Deore available $65-$85 I'd avoid rapid rise / top normal versions - not sure how work with STI's and would prob' feel a bit odd - don't forget not stuck on shimano road cassettes - reckon I usually end up buying SRAM MTB cassettes based on combo of weight and price 34-36 versus 34-28 is a big difference if not enough then consider a 40t or 42 out back with adaptor
- MattyK
- Posts: 3252
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:07 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby MattyK » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:12 pm
If I ever decide to convert my bike to 1x10 I'll remember the above tips.
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9858
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Duck! » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:14 pm
Rapid Rise is/was Low Normal, not Top/High Normal; conventional and Shadow derailleurs are High Normal - "Normal" in Shimano parlance refers to the resting position of the derailleur when there is no cable tension. The vast majority of rear derailleurs spring to the outboard/high gear/small sprocket position when released from cable tension, so are "high normal". Rapid Rise, which is a bit of a thing Shimano had for a couple of generations of MTB derailleurs are reverse-sprung so when freed of cable tension default to the inboard/big sprocket/low gear position, hence they are described as "low normal". Rapid Rise with STI shifters won't feel any more odd than with MTB/flat bar shifters; in both cases the lever functions for up or downshift are swapped, so you just have to remember that when you're riding with it. Aside from that, the actuation ratio is the same, so it'd still work just as well, just arse-about.antigee wrote: (snip... 9-sp. compatibility stuff....) I'd avoid rapid rise / top normal versions - not sure how work with STI's and would prob' feel a bit odd ...
Rapid Rise (Low Normal) and conventional High Normal derailleurs will not happily support greater than a 34T rear sprocket; the upper body geometry plus the sprung/unstopped main pivot/mount simply don't let the derailleur stay low enough. To fit 36T or bigger you need a Shadow (which without exception are regular High Normal format) derailleur. Shadow's original marketing point was that it's a considerably lower lateral profile than a traditional derailleur design, tucked in tighter under the frame & cassette, so less exposed to damage, but it's big advantage - especially in the context of the current scenario - is that the upper pivot is unsprung (except for some newer, lower-spec models {where the spring is entirely unnecessary anyway!]), therefore the b-tension screw, used to adjust vertical clearance, is a positive stopper against forward movement of the derailleur body, therefore ensuring consistent clearance under the big sprocket - within geometric limitations. 9-sp. Shadow models will happily fit up to a 40T sprocket, despite the official specs saying a 36T max....
-
- Posts: 893
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 4:52 pm
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby stevenaaus » Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:46 pm
I bought some mtb parts tonight for my 10 roadie. A (tiagra) 10x 11-34 cassette, and an alivio shadow RD-M3100. Almost went for a bargain $26 Altus rear mech - I've always found Altus decent - but thought I'd do it proper.Duck! wrote: Or use a "9-sp." Shadow-type MTB derailleur which works on the same cable pull ratio as road 10-sp, so no mucking around with ratio converters, and they'll play with up to 40T sprockets (although officially only 36T).
'Bout $60 each. Just messing around, I've got a few 10-ers. Maybe I'll match it with a 52/36?
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6605
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Thoglette » Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:35 pm
Grant Petersen (of Rivendell bicycles) considers the Altus "The best-designed cheap rear derailer in existence"stevenaaus wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:46 pmAlmost went for a bargain $26 Altus rear mech - I've always found Altus decent
Oh, where did you see it for $26? I need to rebuild the commuter in another few thou' km
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
-
- Posts: 893
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 4:52 pm
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby stevenaaus » Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:11 pm
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6605
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Thoglette » Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:58 am
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
-
- Posts: 893
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 4:52 pm
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby stevenaaus » Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:54 pm
Net gains - i get a spare 11 speed groupo for a new road build, see if my cheap 5600 shifters work, i go from 32t to 34t, and have a bit of fun
Duck! Will it work ? I've seen some conflicting reports say the shadow rear mechs (Mine is a rd-m3100-sgs ) won't work with 10 speed shifters. It'll be a bit of an effort, new shifters, chain (length), mechs and cassette. I'm hoping the 10 speed shifters will pull the TRP Spyre cable disc brakes ok.
-
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 6:17 pm
- Location: Hobart, Tasmania
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby 2wheels_mond » Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:58 pm
The M3100 rear derailleur will work with the (non-Tiagra 4700) 10 speed road shifters. Shadow is not the issue, it's the items labelled 'Dyna-Sys' (found on 10 speed and up) that are incompatible with road parts.stevenaaus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:54 pmDuck! Will it work ? I've seen some conflicting reports say the shadow rear mechs (Mine is a rd-m3100-sgs ) won't work with 10 speed shifters. It'll be a bit of an effort, new shifters, chain (length), mechs and cassette. I'm hoping the 10 speed shifters will pull the TRP Spyre cable disc brakes ok.
The other giveaway is the barrel adjuster - any (current) Shimano MTB rear derailleur with a barrel adjuster works with road shifters. The higher end parts don't need barrel adjusters (since on MTBs they're at the lever).
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9858
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Duck! » Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:41 pm
On the braking side, again should be pretty OK, but depends a bit on caliper leverage.... From about 2009 onward (7900 Dura-Ace & derivatives), Shimano brakes worked on a longer cable pull. Paired with older-spec calipers, this can make the brakes aggressively grabby. Going the other way, newer-leverage calipers with older levers can use a lot of the lever stroke for not a lot of effect.
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9858
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Duck! » Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:49 pm
Not necessarily true, numerous MTB derailleurs that are compatible with road shifters do not have an inbuilt barrel adjuster. However there are various "in-line" adjusters that can be fitted to the shift cable outer casing to enable tuning.2wheels_mond wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:58 pmThe other giveaway is the barrel adjuster - any (current) Shimano MTB rear derailleur with a barrel adjuster works with road shifters. The higher end parts don't need barrel adjusters (since on MTBs they're at the lever).
-
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 6:17 pm
- Location: Hobart, Tasmania
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby 2wheels_mond » Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:57 pm
That's why I specified current. Of the current MTB series, Alivio M4000 and below RDs are compatible with road. They all have barrel adjusters at the RD.Duck! wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:49 pmNot necessarily true, numerous MTB derailleurs that are compatible with road shifters do not have an inbuilt barrel adjuster. However there are various "in-line" adjusters that can be fitted to the shift cable outer casing to enable tuning.2wheels_mond wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:58 pmThe other giveaway is the barrel adjuster - any (current) Shimano MTB rear derailleur with a barrel adjuster works with road shifters. The higher end parts don't need barrel adjusters (since on MTBs they're at the lever).
-
- Posts: 893
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 4:52 pm
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby stevenaaus » Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:57 pm
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9858
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Best option for lower gearing (Shimano road 10 speed)?
Postby Duck! » Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:25 pm
"Older" models such as M590-series Deore and M770-series XT have remained in production well after their replacement as "current" models. Some of the 590 variants have barrel adjusters, none of the 770s do, yet are compatible with road shifters. Presence of a barrel aduster is not an indication of compatibility. Aside from 7400 Dura-Ace and 4700 Tiagra (the latter including non-series RS405 hydro brifters) all Shimano 5-9-sp. + Road 10-sp. shifters & derailleurs are compatible.2wheels_mond wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:57 pmThat's why I specified current. Of the current MTB series, Alivio M4000 and below RDs are compatible with road. They all have barrel adjusters at the RD.Duck! wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:49 pmNot necessarily true, numerous MTB derailleurs that are compatible with road shifters do not have an inbuilt barrel adjuster. However there are various "in-line" adjusters that can be fitted to the shift cable outer casing to enable tuning.2wheels_mond wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:58 pmThe other giveaway is the barrel adjuster - any (current) Shimano MTB rear derailleur with a barrel adjuster works with road shifters. The higher end parts don't need barrel adjusters (since on MTBs they're at the lever).
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Cycling Brands
- Cannondale
- Garmin
- Giant
- Shimano
- Trek
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+11:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.