Shimano CUES
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 10061
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Shimano CUES
Postby Duck! » Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:16 pm
Unusually for Shimano, there is a very high degree of compatibility across the three sub-groups, but also typically there is very little compatibility with existing "HG"-based groups...
At its core, the CUES family is built around the LinkGlide (LG) drivetrain that was released about 18 months ago. The LG system is built around an 11-sp. cassette that is slightly wider than a "normal" HG type, thanks mainly to thicker sprockets with taller teeth which maximise surface contact with existing 11-sp. chains. All cassettes fit on standard 8/9/10-sp. HG-type hubs. That's about where compatibility with existing stuff ends...
Unlike HG cassettes where the sprocket spacing decreases with each extra gear, CUES/LG uses the same spacing & thickness across all 9/10/11-sp. forms, from its 11-sp. base, so 10 & 9-sp. each become narrower overall with each step. The result of this is very high shifter/derailleur compatibility across the group. The 9-sp. RD-U4000 lacks the clearance to fit the larger sprockets on offer in the 10 & 11-sp. ranges, but the mid-level U6000 and top-tier U8000 will cover all three. Similarly with the shifters, 4000 will only cover 9-sp, but 6000 & 8000 will cover the lot thanks to the constant spacing.
Cassette sizes range from 11-36 (all variants) up to 11-42 9-sp, 11-48 10-sp & 11-50 10-sp.
What does this mean for existing 9, 10 & 11-sp. MTB groups? Well they'll phase out from new bike spec from when 2024 models start appearing in a few months. However, despite impressions that local supply sometimes gives, Shimano are actually very good at continuing parts supply for "legacy" groups for a long time. Sure, some spec levels will likely be discontinued, but there will be compatible spares available for a long time yet!
- MichaelB
- Posts: 15421
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby MichaelB » Thu Mar 02, 2023 7:52 am
-
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:06 am
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby DernyDriver » Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:46 am
Thanks for the detailed info Duck
- bychosis
- Posts: 7393
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
- Location: Lake Macquarie
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby bychosis » Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:57 am
-
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:10 pm
- Location: On the saddle (mostly in nsw)
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby LateStarter » Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:41 am
2008 Cannondale Touring, 2013 Vivente World Randonneur, 2015 Lynskey Sportive (Audax)
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 10061
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby Duck! » Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:28 pm
As mentioned above, there is very limited compatibility with existing componentry. There may be some mixability with MTB 11-sp, but there won't be any with 9 & 10-sp. due to different pull ratios and sprocket gaps. One of the online reports tried mixing a LG cassette in a HG shifter/derailleur set & vice versa; shifted OK on the workstand but pretty rough although useable in the real world.
-
- Posts: 762
- Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:56 am
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby blizzard » Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:19 pm
Personally, I'm considering changing from 10spd Deore to 10 or 11spd Cues on the E-cargo bike when the current cassette is worn (pending availability). The Deore does clunk a bit when shifting under load which is unavoidable in some situations.
I would keep the Deore shifter/derailleur as spares for the XC bike which runs 2x10 Deore.
Also I find the current groupset naming confusing, I can never remember whether Alvio is better/worse than Altus or even Claris vs Sora. At least now you can go on larger number = better spec.
-
- Posts: 986
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 4:52 pm
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby stevenaaus » Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:03 pm
Hambini points out that Cues is heavy as it's designed for both MTB and the more powered ebike market.
I'm pretty cynical about the integrity of big tech companies, so here's hoping they don't abandon or marginalise 11 speed mechanical road groupsets.
-
- Posts: 2442
- Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:45 pm
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby Calvin27 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:25 am
It feels like there is a justification for changing pull rates when you are increasing the cog spacing but if it's all 11 speed what's stopping it from being compatible with current 11 speed? Assuming it runs on a 8/9/10HG freehub, theoretically it should mesh with 11 speed mtb unless they are changing it just for fun?
Also if what the sprocket spacing is same as 11 speed, then it should follow that you can run current 11 speed shifter and RD with a cues cassette (9,10 and 11 speed), and vice versa.
Cushy dirt bike
Very cushy dirt bike
Bike crushed by car (RIP)
No brakes bike
Ebike
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 10061
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby Duck! » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:42 pm
Some reviewers have tried mixing standard HG cassettes into CUES/LG drivetrains and vice versa. It seems OK on the workstand where there's no load, but in the real world it's pretty rough.
So at the very least, if using a LG/CUES cassette, you need the matching shifter to pull the right bite of cable. Some other guinea pig can try mixing the derailleurs, 'cos I'm not in a position to do so any more.
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6727
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby Thoglette » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:25 pm
So we’re sort of back to old 8sp HG dimensions?Duck! wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:42 pmThe "LinkGlide" cassettes that form the basis of the CUES system were originally developed for e-bike use, and the sprockets are thicker to increase contact area with the chain and improve durability. As a result the cassette is wider overall than existing 11-sp. cassettes,
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
-
- Posts: 986
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 4:52 pm
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby stevenaaus » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:31 pm
I think Hambini went over this and showed the contact area is exactly the same... and said that the cassettes are just beefier to take the ebikes motors torque/power.sprockets are thicker to increase contact area with the chain
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6727
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby Thoglette » Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:04 pm
They've not met @twolonglegs, then.stevenaaus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:31 pmt the cassettes are just beefier to take the ebikes motors torque/power.
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
-
- Posts: 15471
- Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
- Location: Bendigo
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby warthog1 » Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:15 pm
He broke a crank arm. Dont remember a cassette. Could have done though.
He is still doing a bit of riding in France. He is on strava.
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 10061
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby Duck! » Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:22 pm
No..... HG-type 8, 9 & 10-sp. cassettes are all virtually the same overall width. HG11 is wider, LG is wider again. Sprocket spacing is possibly close to HG10, but I don't know.Thoglette wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:25 pmSo we’re sort of back to old 8sp HG dimensions?Duck! wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:42 pmThe "LinkGlide" cassettes that form the basis of the CUES system were originally developed for e-bike use, and the sprockets are thicker to increase contact area with the chain and improve durability. As a result the cassette is wider overall than existing 11-sp. cassettes,
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6727
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby Thoglette » Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:37 pm
Ta. HG-10 ended up pretty reliable in the enf
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
-
- Posts: 762
- Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:56 am
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby blizzard » Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:36 pm
I believe Cues is 1:1, but not sure what the MTB pull ratio is.Duck! wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:42 pmThe "LinkGlide" cassettes that form the basis of the CUES system were originally developed for e-bike use, and the sprockets are thicker to increase contact area with the chain and improve durability. As a result the cassette is wider overall than existing 11-sp. cassettes, so the shifter needs a longer cable stroke to cover the extra width. I don't know if there is actually a difference in actuation ratio from existing MTB 11-sp. or if Shimano are just being coy about compatibility outside its own little family, which they have a history for.....
Some reviewers have tried mixing standard HG cassettes into CUES/LG drivetrains and vice versa. It seems OK on the workstand where there's no load, but in the real world it's pretty rough.
So at the very least, if using a LG/CUES cassette, you need the matching shifter to pull the right bite of cable. Some other guinea pig can try mixing the derailleurs, 'cos I'm not in a position to do so any more.
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 10061
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby Duck! » Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:51 pm
-
- Posts: 762
- Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:56 am
Re: Shimano CUES
Postby blizzard » Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:22 pm
I did 2300km on the Deore, the derailleur and shifters will become spares for my MTB.
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: holywater
- All times are UTC+11:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.