Got case law cites to support that (for Vic?) In my jurisdiction you're not "passing" if you're in another lane.
Left turn rules.
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6629
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Left turn rules.
Postby Thoglette » Wed Oct 11, 2023 10:12 pm
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
- twizzle
- Posts: 6402
- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
- Location: Highlands of Wales.
Re: Left turn rules.
Postby twizzle » Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:59 am
It's not case law, it's legislation.
http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/ ... /s141.html
Note clause '(2)', which stands alone. 3 penalty units!!! Highway robbery.
I ride, therefore I am. But don't ride into harm's way.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
-
- Posts: 5131
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:41 pm
Re: Left turn rules.
Postby rkelsen » Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:09 am
That's the one true rule here!
Drivers don't respect other drivers, or any other road users for that matter. Maybe I'm getting old, but the current cohort of P platers seem more unhinged than previous generations... do we blame covid for that?
-
- Posts: 2923
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:14 pm
Re: Left turn rules.
Postby Mr Purple » Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:52 am
Hard to say up here because P plates themselves have only been compulsory for a few years in Queensland.
The demographic I have the greatest issue with on the road is late 40's, early 50's of both genders equally. A peculiar combination of extreme arrogance and a complete disregard for consequence. They look straight at you and then proceed to drive out anyway.
Though I have also noticed a rise in people pulling out from side streets without even looking. One would think if you were pulling out to a major road you'd at least have a glance in the direction that fast moving traffic would be approaching from. But no. I do wonder if those individuals ended up dead in previous generations - victim of a car through the driver's side door.
My philosophy ever since I started to drive was 'drive as if everyone is out to kill you'. It's worked well so far - the last car accident I was involved in was in 2005 (rear ended stationary at a traffic light) and the only other one was 2004 (t-boned from a car failing to give way at a roundabout). And that's it. I double the cautious approach on the bike.
-
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am
Re: Left turn rules.
Postby AdelaidePeter » Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:59 pm
I belive that is correct. The ARR dictionary (at least the SA version) says: "multi-lane road, for a driver, means a one-way road, or a two-way road, with 2 or more marked lanes (except bicycle lanes) ..."
So I think whatever the left turn vs bicycle ruling is, it is unaffected by whether there is a bicycle lane or not.
As for the rule itself, the last time I had a deep look I decided it was ambiguous. So perhaps it is possible for both to be required to give way:
* If the driver is only very slightly ahead of the car (so close that the cyclist has no time to brake), then the driver must give way, due to the rule about not cutting off another vehicle. (Perhaps ARR 125 "A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian." cover this, but IANAY).
* If the driver is a long way ahead and begins to turn, the cyclist is required to give way, due to ARR 141(2), as has already been mentioned in this thread.
* So on the borderline case (where the cyclist has time to brake, but has to do it quickly), perhaps BOTH have to give way: the driver is in the wrong to begin turning in front of the cyclist; but once the turn has begun, the cyclist is in the wrong if they don't brake.
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6629
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Left turn rules.
Postby Thoglette » Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:36 pm
That's a rather "brave" statement. But I do agree that's worded rather differently in Vic, particulary how 141(1) is worded, v.s. say, WA where this is all covered under the section on "overtaking", with multiple lanes implicitly considered separately.
There's also some movement on what "the leftmost lane" is in Vic, including text such as " does not include a special purpose lane in which the driver is not permitted to drive."
There's also some interesting rules on roundabouts, particularly at 119
At or about that point I got a bit bored, so may have missed plenty of other fun bits.The rider of a bicycle or animal who is riding in the far left marked lane of a roundabout with 2 or more marked lanes, or the far left line of traffic in a roundabout with room for 2 or more lines of traffic (other than motor bikes, bicycles or animals), must give way to any vehicle leaving the roundabout.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
Return to “Cycling Safety and Advocacy”
Jump to
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
Brought to you by Bicycles Network Australia | © 1999 - 2024 | Powered by phpBB ®
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.