Disposable bikes

User avatar
find_bruce
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10973
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Disposable bikes

Postby find_bruce » Sun May 12, 2024 7:52 am

According to the SMH Cycling’s dirty secret: 300,000 bikes a year dumped in landfill. When you look beyond the clickbait headline, the issue is yet another example of disposable consumerism

Guido Verbist, general manager of Revolve Recycling is quoted as saying

“The problem is that 60 per cent of the bikes sold now are what we call the big box bikes from stores like Kmart, and they are not meant to last. They are very cheap, poor quality and very difficult to repair.”
Anything you can do, I can do slower

Mr Purple
Posts: 3532
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby Mr Purple » Sun May 12, 2024 8:55 am

Revolve Recycling teamed up with consumer organisation Choice to test the longevity of bicycles. It bought two from Kmart for about $200 each and two more expensive bicycles in the $600-$700 range. They were used by four cyclists in similar ways, including for commuting, and brought back for servicing every month. After six months, the more expensive bikes were still going strong, while the cheaper bikes could no longer be repaired after 72 hours of use.

Just wow. Surely a new bike being irreparable after 72 hours of use is a straightforward warranty claim?

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 7393
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby bychosis » Sun May 12, 2024 9:15 am

If we had a robust second hand product attitude and a marketplace to suit - like shops that have a wide range of second hand, quality, serviced bikes big box store junk would be less of a problem.

When you can walk into kmart and buy a BSO in 5 min, but have to trawl through marketplace full of terrible listing's and scammers to buy second hand thevoption many people use is to buy new with warranty. If your local bike shop was more like the old school shops and less like the cycling superstore surely they could sell second hand bikes with a warranty.

Old bike shop thatll repair anything rather than the cycling superstore that just want to sell the most flashy parts the can. This guy explains what i mean somewhat. https://youtu.be/csZETvuCCiM?si=mqjrvx85icodxXju
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 7393
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby bychosis » Sun May 12, 2024 9:21 am

Mr Purple wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 8:55 am
Revolve Recycling teamed up with consumer organisation Choice to test the longevity of bicycles. It bought two from Kmart for about $200 each and two more expensive bicycles in the $600-$700 range. They were used by four cyclists in similar ways, including for commuting, and brought back for servicing every month. After six months, the more expensive bikes were still going strong, while the cheaper bikes could no longer be repaired after 72 hours of use.

Just wow. Surely a new bike being irreparable after 72 hours of use is a straightforward warranty claim?
Even if it is a warranty claim, the replacement isn't likely to last long either.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

Andy01
Posts: 1580
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby Andy01 » Sun May 12, 2024 9:32 am

While I agree that being irreparable after 72 hours of riding is just shocking, I might also guess that a large percentage of these "big box" bikes may never see as much as 72 hours of riding.

I think that many buyers are parents who buy a bike for infrequent family rides that may only involve a 15 minute (each way) ride to a local park with the family a couple of times a month, so they could literally be doing less than 6 hours of riding per year, so the bike lasts for years until the kids have grown up and the bikes are dumped to make space for other things.

The first bikes I bought for the wife and I in 2001 at KMart were a bit like that - very infrequently used until I started riding every Saturday around 2003, and I VERY quickly realised that a better bike was needed and I moved on the 2yo KMart bike. I really can't remember but I would be surprised if it had more than 10 hours on it when I put it out to curbside collection.

The chances are that these people would just not buy a bike if they had to pay 3-4 times as much. A good accessible second hand market would be helpful in this regard - and experienced riders being willing to part with their "old" bikes may also help. I suspect that there is a good few people (even on here) who tend to hang on to older bikes that they now rarely (never) ride instead of finding them a good home.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 23110
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby g-boaf » Sun May 12, 2024 9:52 am

It's just too difficult to sell old bikes. I have a fixed gear track bike (a Langster Pro) I'd like to sell, I have no need for it anymore. Only people interested want to pay $100 for it. Stuff that. :roll:

warthog1
Posts: 15471
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby warthog1 » Sun May 12, 2024 10:04 am

I hate trying to sell things too. pita. :roll:
Dogs are the best people :wink:

Mr Purple
Posts: 3532
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby Mr Purple » Sun May 12, 2024 10:19 am

Andy01 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 9:32 am
The chances are that these people would just not buy a bike if they had to pay 3-4 times as much. A good accessible second hand market would be helpful in this regard - and experienced riders being willing to part with their "old" bikes may also help. I suspect that there is a good few people (even on here) who tend to hang on to older bikes that they now rarely (never) ride instead of finding them a good home.
The problem is we're the weirdos in this situation. The average person on the street isn't going to buy a secondhand bike with 'Shimano' if they can buy a brand new one for the same price, also with 'Shimano'. The difference between DuraAce and Tourney doesn't even come into question in this equation.

Add to this the fact that the most recent bike a lot of adults have ridden was a 1985 Malvern Star with downtube shifters that weighed 15kg. Even the most terrible of department store bikes is allegedly similar, and they just assume that's what all bikes are like. So they don't see any benefit in spending any more. I was raised on a succession of cheap steel and alloy framesets bought from a mate who was done with them, and I remember the first time I hopped on an entry level 105 bike. It was astoundingly better.

So I don't blame anyone who holds onto their old bikes rather than wasting energy negotiating with someone who doesn't have the first idea about anything to do with it and just feels it's too expensive. I'd rather donate my old bikes to charity than do that!

warthog1
Posts: 15471
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby warthog1 » Sun May 12, 2024 10:30 am

^^Haha, good summary :)
Dogs are the best people :wink:

User avatar
uart
Posts: 3269
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby uart » Sun May 12, 2024 11:14 am

Andy01 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 9:32 am
and I VERY quickly realised that a better bike was needed and I moved on the 2yo KMart bike. I really can't remember but I would be surprised if it had more than 10 hours on it when I put it out to curbside collection.
Yeah, you see a hell of a lot of those cheap arsed bikes out on the junk pile with OEM tyres that have almost zero wear on them.
Mr Purple wrote: After six months, the more expensive bikes were still going strong, while the cheaper bikes could no longer be repaired after 72 hours of use.

Just wow. Surely a new bike being irreparable after 72 hours of use is a straightforward warranty claim?
Technically, I don't think they're really unrepairable, more that they're just not economical to repair. Some of those k-mart bikes aren't much more than $100, so if you don't do you're own maintenance then just how much does it take for a few repairs at a bike shop to add to more than the cost of the bike? Not much, that's for sure.

I'll admit to keeping an old junker for riding to the local beach or shops. I mean so much junk that you don't even need to lock 'em up - like ride to the beach and throw it against the nearest clump saltbush while I go for a bodysurf. Well you can keep them going ok reasonably long term if you do your own maintenance, it's just that most people wouldn't bother.

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 7393
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby bychosis » Sun May 12, 2024 11:29 am

Mr Purple wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 10:19 am
So I don't blame anyone who holds onto their old bikes rather than wasting energy negotiating with someone who doesn't have the first idea about anything to do with it and just feels it's too expensive. I'd rather donate my old bikes to charity than do that!
There's also lots of people that hang onto a good bike they'll never ride again because it cost a lot and selling it, or giving it away, realises a fairly large loss. Means there are a bunch of quality bikes that should be tidied up and sold instead of kmart bikes being bought. Again, that meams we need a thriving marketplace to refurbish and sell them.

My neighbour knows I play with bikes. He bought an ebike a few years ago and finally decided its time to get rid of the old bike he hasn't ridden since. Asked if I'd like it or he'll throw it out. Its a 2004 Giant XTC with XT derailleur. Potentially landfill, but now getting serviced and ready to be useful again
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 23110
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby g-boaf » Sun May 12, 2024 11:31 am

Mr Purple wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 10:19 am
Andy01 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 9:32 am
The chances are that these people would just not buy a bike if they had to pay 3-4 times as much. A good accessible second hand market would be helpful in this regard - and experienced riders being willing to part with their "old" bikes may also help. I suspect that there is a good few people (even on here) who tend to hang on to older bikes that they now rarely (never) ride instead of finding them a good home.
The problem is we're the weirdos in this situation. The average person on the street isn't going to buy a secondhand bike with 'Shimano' if they can buy a brand new one for the same price, also with 'Shimano'. The difference between DuraAce and Tourney doesn't even come into question in this equation.

Add to this the fact that the most recent bike a lot of adults have ridden was a 1985 Malvern Star with downtube shifters that weighed 15kg. Even the most terrible of department store bikes is allegedly similar, and they just assume that's what all bikes are like. So they don't see any benefit in spending any more. I was raised on a succession of cheap steel and alloy framesets bought from a mate who was done with them, and I remember the first time I hopped on an entry level 105 bike. It was astoundingly better.
And besides they can get Shimanó on the cheap from random folks online who even take great photos of the bike with arty lens-flare effects.

I have a very well looked after DA9000 equipped Trek Madone 4.5 (at 7.2kg) which would probably be a great bike for someone but won't bother selling it because it will just end up being a fight over some buyer wanting to pay $50 for it and even arguing about that.

User avatar
OnTrackZeD
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:35 pm

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby OnTrackZeD » Sun May 12, 2024 1:23 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 11:31 am


I have a very well looked after DA9000 equipped Trek Madone 4.5 (at 7.2kg) which would probably be a great bike for someone but won't bother selling it because it will just end up being a fight over some buyer wanting to pay $50 for it and even arguing about that.
I kept my old bike as a backup, now four years later I needed it while I wait for parts and repair.

Not as good as I remember the old bike was, but still worth keeping instead of the money.

warthog1
Posts: 15471
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby warthog1 » Sun May 12, 2024 2:20 pm

OnTrackZeD wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 1:23 pm
g-boaf wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 11:31 am


I have a very well looked after DA9000 equipped Trek Madone 4.5 (at 7.2kg) which would probably be a great bike for someone but won't bother selling it because it will just end up being a fight over some buyer wanting to pay $50 for it and even arguing about that.
I kept my old bike as a backup, now four years later I needed it while I wait for parts and repair.

Not as good as I remember the old bike was, but still worth keeping instead of the money.
Got an S5 that I bought new in 2012. Ultegra and Zipp 404s. It's going to have to go to make room for a new bike. I hate selling stuff too due to bargain hunters but run out of space.
Dogs are the best people :wink:

User avatar
ldrcycles
Posts: 9691
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby ldrcycles » Wed May 15, 2024 1:15 pm

It's a shame the article doesn't mention whether the bikes were given a go over on purchase, or if they were given to the riders straight out of the box. From personal experience I can say if someone who knows what they're doing disassembles a K-Mart/Big W bike and greases and adjusts everything properly before use, the lifespan will be 10 times longer.
"I must be rather keen on cycling"- Sir Hubert Opperman.

Road Record Association of Australia

User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 15661
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney & Frankfurt
Contact:

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby AUbicycles » Thu May 16, 2024 2:32 am

If this was similar to the choice mag test (if I recall the publication), mechanics checked and did initial safety repairs (on the brand new bikes) and at intervals checks and repairs.

Most people who buy cheap and nasty bikes do not know how to build and service them… so would have an advantage buying from a proper bike shops that assemble and check… but a good bike that is properly assembled is in a different price class to the rubbish with the word shimano printed somewhere on the frame and label.
Cycling is in my BNA

User avatar
elantra
Posts: 3528
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:01 am
Location: NSW and QLD

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby elantra » Thu May 16, 2024 9:31 am

find_bruce wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 7:52 am
According to the SMH Cycling’s dirty secret: 300,000 bikes a year dumped in landfill. When you look beyond the clickbait headline, the issue is yet another example of disposable consumerism

Guido Verbist, general manager of Revolve Recycling is quoted as saying

“The problem is that 60 per cent of the bikes sold now are what we call the big box bikes from stores like Kmart, and they are not meant to last. They are very cheap, poor quality and very difficult to repair.”
Yes, department store bikes are just the tip of the iceberg.
Look at all the TV screens that are dumped after a very short lifespan.
And throw away furniture, white goods, and and and…..

in terms of illegal dumping, bicycle-shaped objects are in the minor league.
And let’s not forget the issue of disposal of motor vehicles. That’s a real big one !

User avatar
trailgumby
Posts: 15473
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Contact:

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby trailgumby » Thu May 16, 2024 5:24 pm

Since the demise of eBay, it's almost impossible to sell a secondhand bike on the national market. It's been fragmented into little micro-markets thanks to FaceBook Marketpace, and it's just full of scammers.

As a consequence, I tend to hang onto my bikes for longer. That can't be helping the bike industry. I wonder how much this is contributing to its current struggles?

Andy01
Posts: 1580
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby Andy01 » Thu May 16, 2024 6:20 pm

elantra wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 9:31 am
find_bruce wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 7:52 am
According to the SMH Cycling’s dirty secret: 300,000 bikes a year dumped in landfill. When you look beyond the clickbait headline, the issue is yet another example of disposable consumerism

Guido Verbist, general manager of Revolve Recycling is quoted as saying

“The problem is that 60 per cent of the bikes sold now are what we call the big box bikes from stores like Kmart, and they are not meant to last. They are very cheap, poor quality and very difficult to repair.”
Yes, department store bikes are just the tip of the iceberg.
Look at all the TV screens that are dumped after a very short lifespan.
And throw away furniture, white goods, and and and…..

I think there are at least 3 contributors to the current "disposable age" we live in;

- Build quality is not what it used to be. Several salespeople have told me that anything over 6-8 years is pretty good for white goods. It used to be anything less than 12-15 years for most appliances was terrible, with many going another decade on top of that.

- Designs tend to be for ease of or reduced cost of manufacturing - built-in obsolescence and lack of repairability. My relatively new Sony 75" LED TV started giving problems after about 8 months, so repair tech came around - I was surprised that the entire TV had 5 parts - panel, 2x PCBs, casing to hold it all, and stand. That was it.

- And perhaps the big one - our labour is so costly that it costs hundreds of dollars to even assess many problems (call-out fees etc), so very few household things are worth fixing.

This certainly affects most household items, including bikes.

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 3763
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:24 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby DavidS » Fri May 17, 2024 12:11 am

Andy01 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 6:20 pm
elantra wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 9:31 am
find_bruce wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 7:52 am
According to the SMH Cycling’s dirty secret: 300,000 bikes a year dumped in landfill. When you look beyond the clickbait headline, the issue is yet another example of disposable consumerism

Guido Verbist, general manager of Revolve Recycling is quoted as saying

“The problem is that 60 per cent of the bikes sold now are what we call the big box bikes from stores like Kmart, and they are not meant to last. They are very cheap, poor quality and very difficult to repair.”
Yes, department store bikes are just the tip of the iceberg.
Look at all the TV screens that are dumped after a very short lifespan.
And throw away furniture, white goods, and and and…..

I think there are at least 3 contributors to the current "disposable age" we live in;

- Build quality is not what it used to be. Several salespeople have told me that anything over 6-8 years is pretty good for white goods. It used to be anything less than 12-15 years for most appliances was terrible, with many going another decade on top of that.

- Designs tend to be for ease of or reduced cost of manufacturing - built-in obsolescence and lack of repairability. My relatively new Sony 75" LED TV started giving problems after about 8 months, so repair tech came around - I was surprised that the entire TV had 5 parts - panel, 2x PCBs, casing to hold it all, and stand. That was it.

- And perhaps the big one - our labour is so costly that it costs hundreds of dollars to even assess many problems (call-out fees etc), so very few household things are worth fixing.

This certainly affects most household items, including bikes.
Yeah it is terrible, things don't last like they used to, partly because they have useless technology built in.

Our oven started to trip the circuit recently. We got someone in, at great expense, and they said they couldn't diagnose it because the display has a fair number of LEDs which don't work. The oven is maybe 5 years old. Anyway, after contemplating a new oven I decided to leave the circuit tripped for a while and turned it back on after a few days and now it is ok again. The guy who looked at the oven said everything works off the timer, and hardly anyone uses the timer. It's BS the way these things are reliant on a timer, it is a bloody oven, I just need to turn it on and off and set the temperature, nothing more. We lived in a fat years ago where the oven/stove was a Metters Early Kooka, it was 1989 and the stove was built maybe in the 1920s and worked fine.They over-complicate these things and they are just not built to last any more. Plus, the parts are not available for long so you can have, for example, an oven which will operate for another couple of decades but no longer works because some stupid little part has malfunctioned and is no longer available.

We have to stop this waste, we have to go back to building durable goods such as fridges, TVs, ovens, stoves, washing machines etc.

DS
Allegro T1, Auren Swift :)

Nobody
Posts: 10496
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby Nobody » Fri May 17, 2024 9:24 am

DavidS wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 12:11 am
...We have to stop this waste, we have to go back to building durable goods such as fridges, TVs, ovens, stoves, washing machines etc.

It may be just a function of the shallower society we live in now. People prefer to buy shiny, impressive, advanced, modern looking products now. There doesn't appear to be a big market for durable and functionally basic products at the same price or higher than the fancy products. I have bought some bicycle parts and products that are considered to be more durable. But those products are a niche/minority segment in the current market from what I can see.

They sell what people will buy. You can vote with your wallet by not buying the new products you don't think are durable enough. You and I will still be in a minority though. Check out product reviews to see what's worth it. Maybe seek out the better products secondhand. Then when they die they didn't cost you that much anyway. We won't change the trajectory of the market. But we can wishfully think we are contributing to slowing down the rate of change.

For me it depends on what it is. The appliances for the family I tend to buy better name branded products new as I try to show them that I think they are worth it - since I don't use their appliances. Stuff for me is usually secondhand if I can find it.
Last edited by Nobody on Fri May 17, 2024 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 7393
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby bychosis » Fri May 17, 2024 11:30 am

https://youtu.be/QV88C5ZK0x0?si=oKKE2WmCm_aTWCy1

This should be the only type of bike available at kmart. Rock solid, good utility. None of the flashy dual suspension or multi gear rubbish.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

Nobody
Posts: 10496
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby Nobody » Fri May 17, 2024 11:44 am

bychosis wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 11:30 am
https://youtu.be/QV88C5ZK0x0?si=oKKE2WmCm_aTWCy1

This should be the only type of bike available at kmart. Rock solid, good utility. None of the flashy dual suspension or multi gear rubbish.

Even if you could buy one - which you can't - they wouldn't sell many. People who know little about bikes will still end up buying the flashy BSO/"big box" bikes.
https://bicyclingaustralia.com.au/bikes ... falo-bike/
Can I buy one?

Not exactly. While a Buffalo bike costs around $200, they are not typically for sale to the general public.

User avatar
find_bruce
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10973
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby find_bruce » Fri May 17, 2024 1:02 pm

Aldi did a range of folding bikes & a mate bought one. When I asked why he bought such a craptacular bike, he responded that he was unlikely to ride it enough to wear it out & it fitted under the bed
Anything you can do, I can do slower

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 7393
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Disposable bikes

Postby bychosis » Fri May 17, 2024 7:37 pm

Nobody wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 11:44 am
bychosis wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 11:30 am
https://youtu.be/QV88C5ZK0x0?si=oKKE2WmCm_aTWCy1

This should be the only type of bike available at kmart. Rock solid, good utility. None of the flashy dual suspension or multi gear rubbish.

Even if you could buy one - which you can't - they wouldn't sell many. People who know little about bikes will still end up buying the flashy BSO/"big box" bikes.
https://bicyclingaustralia.com.au/bikes ... falo-bike/
Can I buy one?

Not exactly. While a Buffalo bike costs around $200, they are not typically for sale to the general public.
Its a shame how easy it is for kmart sell to their 'flashy' BSOs, just pointing out that there is a style of bike that is perfectly acceptable to build cheaply. If the likes of kmart only stocked that type wuold potentially stop a lot of "5 minutes before its landfill bikes"
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: elantra, holywater, ldrcycles