Aluminium - 6061 - ALUXX FluidFormed etc
- Aushiker
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Aluminium - 6061 - ALUXX FluidFormed etc
Postby Aushiker » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:03 pm
Looking at MTBs and I guess roadies etc, I sometimes see different types of aluminium used. For example Felt refer to 6061 aluminium, Giant refer to "ALUXX FluidFormed" and I think I have seen a 7 series aluminium amongst others.
So my question is which is better if any? Is there some sort of rating or guide online?
Also what sort of specs should one be looking for in a frame (e.g., in terms of butting, welding etc)?
Regards
Andrew
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- Bnej
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Postby Bnej » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:11 pm
"ALUXX" and "Alpha Aluminium" are Giant and Trek trademarks referring to the alloys they use - I don't know what the numbers for those are but they are probably some form of 6061 or 7005 which are the most common Al. alloys.
- Mulger bill
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Postby Mulger bill » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:19 pm
The first digit refers to the "family" of alloys, the other three being different variants of the basic mix. 6061 is bog stock, cheap as chips stuff. 7 series, particularly 7075 is sooo much better.
Many makers specify their own mix, and so you end up with Giants' ALUXX and similar.
Fluidforming is a process first used by Giant to create integral frame gussets for MTBs which has spread far and wide, basically the cut and mitred tube is placed into a sealed mould and high temp oil is pumped into the tube which forces it into the shape of the mould, supposedly altering the grain of the alloy at the same time.
I'd still rather have a craftsman create something for me in the finest British steel....
Shaun
London Boy 29/12/2011
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Postby Aushiker » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:50 pm
Andrew
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Postby europa » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:16 pm
Richard
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Postby tallywhacker » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:29 pm
Second that (the steel part), although I have a fondness for light weight Japanese steel (Tange Prestige or Ultimate). We dont want to start another materials debate but have a look here http://spokesmanbicycles.com/page.cfm?pageID=157Mulger bill wrote:I'd still rather have a craftsman create something for me in the finest British steel....
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Postby Dave A » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:38 am
http://www.brucescycleworks.com/tips/tip18.html
Amongst other things:
"...7005 aluminum is actually the stronger aluminum alloy. This begs the next question, which is the better material? 6061 is of course, or at least that is the opinion of most bike manufacturers..."
"...The difference between the two is that 7005, because of its high alloy content (over 6%), is harder to manipulate the material and to weld it. This means that with 6061 it is much easier to add strength adding tubing features like triple butting, ovalized tubing, and tapered walls that reduce the weight and improve the strength of the tubing..."
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Postby toolonglegs » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:19 am
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Aluminium Alloys
Postby rdp_au » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:46 pm
It can be done, though, as the use of 70xx is common in aircraft manufacture - that's why you'll sometimes see it referred to as 'aviation grade'.
Cheers,
David
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Postby Wanta-bike » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:40 pm
and 6061 is heated treated to get its strength, which means more production costs, which leads to higher price to pay for a 6061 alum frame...
hmmm.... might go investigate more....
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Postby Aushiker » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:28 pm
So would I be correct to assume 7005 in a MTB [Avanti Ridge Rider] would be okay. I would be using it as tourer with possibly a Xtracycle fitted. A 2007 model has come up for $550 and it may be in the right size.
Andrew
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Postby Bnej » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:46 pm
Has hydraulic brakes but low spec shifters and FD. You'll probably have to fit a cable disc calliper on the rear if you Xtracycle it as I don't think there is an easy way to get a hydraulic tube to work that far from the bars.
Cheaper frames aren't normally less strong, they're normally just heavier.
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Postby Kalgrm » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:06 pm
Cheers,
Graeme
---------------------
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Postby Aushiker » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:17 pm
Okay, back to hunting.Kalgrm wrote:Note also the specs say 8 speed, which it seems is being phased out of most bike models these days. Nothing wrong with 8 speed, but you may eventually hit problems with parts and need to upgrade shifters, cassette, chain and R derailleur. That need is still probably a couple of years away though, so you'll see a few kms before then anyway.
CORRECTION: The Xtracycle comes with a 8 speed chain but a nine speed is available at extra cost.
The 2008 model is $899 RRP but I am not sure what the specs are. Avanti haven't updated their website yet. Mind you if I go new I would get the Montari I think.
Was hoping to save a few bucks on the bike so if go BOB or Xtracycle the whole package is more reasonable.
Andrew
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Postby MichaelB » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:46 pm
The various stages of hardening (be it heat treating, ageing, cold working etc) need to be specified as part of the material, e.g. 7075-O, 2014-H14 etc etc.
7075 is a common aerospace grade, but then their is varying qualities of that grade as well. The purity of the base alloy also has a significant effect. You can get industrial 7075 which may be 99% pure alloy, but the true aero grade is 99.999% pure. That last 0.999 can make a HUGE difference.
7075 also has a great affinity to stress corrosion cracking - not a good thing at all.
To get a really good understanding of the relative material properties, you would need to look up a good Engineering book. I could scan something, but then would need someone to host it.
Either way, the different materials used would have different x-sections and wall thickness to account for that, soo they'd all be pretty much on par in strength, but the weighht and quality will differ.
To be different, the LeMond uses 6066 Alloy to be different
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Postby Aushiker » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:21 pm
Bloody hard to find a suitable second hand MTB it seems. Turns out this is a XL frame which will be too big for me. Maybe a blessing in disguise.Aushiker wrote:G'day
So would I be correct to assume 7005 in a MTB [Avanti Ridge Rider] would be okay. I would be using it as tourer with possibly a Xtracycle fitted. A 2007 model has come up for $550 and it may be in the right size.
Andrew
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