Sensah Empire
- familyguy
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Sensah Empire
Postby familyguy » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:22 pm
2x11, but not (it seems) Shimano, SRAM or Campagnolo compatible shifting based on what I read.
Before anyone says "why not just use cheaper Shimano, surely it's more reliable, this is Chinese and bound to be crap", you're gonna have to back that up by having used this gear. Opinions are like, well, you know the rest. It looks like it is quite possibly coming out of the Ghangzhou factory that SRAM have just left. Well, well...
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling ... -gear.html
(There are links to two good youtube vids in the thread by Kimmo and Friday)
$420-odd landed for 2x11 complete? Can anyone do better?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006574719.html
I will own up and say this stuff interests me as a potential project. While I've got 5 barely used 10s groupsets (2 Campagnolo, 1 SRAM, 2 Shimano) in boxes waiting for bikes, with half a dozen running with various levels of Tiagra/105/Ultegra/Force, I don't need any more but the price would be right if the quality was reasonable and it worked efficiently.
Jim
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:47 pm
I'd be curious to see what the weight is. I guess a fair comparison would be with Microshift ?
I can be smart and say, no good for me, as there isn't a disc version.
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby nickobec » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:26 pm
He has not tried the Sensah Empire, but plenty of his commenters have.
To put it simply Shimano and to a lesser extent SRAM and Campagnolo have heaps of patents which can be used to stiffle the opposition. The Chinese ignore that inconvenience and borrow the bits they like.
[edited to clarify the you tuber has not tried the groupset yet)
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby nickobec » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:48 pm
or about $200 for brifters and derailleurs and supply your own brakes, crankset, chain and cassette
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby rangersac » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:02 pm
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby familyguy » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:40 pm
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:51 pm
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby Duck! » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:08 pm
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby familyguy » Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:01 pm
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby bianchi928 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:22 am
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby familyguy » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:51 am
Finally got around to watching this. Interesting to note his comments regarding the reasoning behind the Rotor and FSA groups being part wired/part hydro/part electronic is to avoid the huge amounts of patents that Shimano has, and to a lesser extent SRAM. No mention of Campganolo patents, though.nickobec wrote:English (and Chinese resident) bike nerd at the 2019 Shanghai Bike Show looking at groupsets
He has not tried the Sensah Empire, but plenty of his commenters have.
To put it simply Shimano and to a lesser extent SRAM and Campagnolo have heaps of patents which can be used to stiffle the opposition. The Chinese ignore that inconvenience and borrow the bits they like.
[edited to clarify the you tuber has not tried the groupset yet)
How a 'cable actuated gear changing device for bicycles' can differ enough between manufacturers to not infringe on another's patent is beyond my understanding.
Jim
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby MattyK » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:52 pm
As examples - I'm guessing Shimano has the rights to "push the brake lever sideways to shift" locked down. Noone else does that. SRAM, Campy, Microshift all use a secondary lever to pull the cable with.familyguy wrote: Finally got around to watching this. Interesting to note his comments regarding the reasoning behind the Rotor and FSA groups being part wired/part hydro/part electronic is to avoid the huge amounts of patents that Shimano has, and to a lesser extent SRAM. No mention of Campagnolo patents, though.
How a 'cable actuated gear changing device for bicycles' can differ enough between manufacturers to not infringe on another's patent is beyond my understanding.
Jim
SRAM would have the rights to the Double Tap implementation. Rotor have snuck around it by being hydraulics not cable.
Campy probably have rights to the thumb release lever, though I think some Microshifts have similar, so maybe not, but maybe so for how many clicks it can release in one push.
And so on, that's just the obvious surface level stuff. There would be thousands of minutiae below that, as well as lots of electronics stuff on the new systems.
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby familyguy » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:39 pm
Just saw the Sensah Ignite levers. Available in 2 x 8 and 2 x 9, claimed to be Shimano compatible, so in theory you could replace flogged out Sora/Tiagra/anything up to 9s levers with these. Might be a cheaper way to test some as an update to an older set that aren't working well. Possibilities...
Jim
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby Kimmo » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:37 pm
The combination of double tap and swinging brake lever is a great concept; really tidy and ergonomic. Pity about the throw...
As for the derailers, they seem a little cheap, but the price is incredible.
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby Kimmo » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:23 pm
Here's my vids:
[shareyoutube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Q15IlhjPw[/shareyoutube]
[shareyoutube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=905Xa9c-Scs[/shareyoutube]
...How does that YouTube tag work?
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby 10speedsemiracer » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:58 pm
and second vid
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby familyguy » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:52 am
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby Kimmo » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:19 am
Before mounting them I was hopeful the throw would be okay, but like I said, it turns out to be crap enough to discourage shifts. Multiple shifts are possible pulling the cable, but you have to push so far to make the first one happen, you don't feel like pushing much further.
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby bychosis » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:47 am
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby familyguy » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:56 am
Hmm, so they are metal? Felt VERY plastic, so much so that the guy who owned the bike said they were plastic. The throw is good for one, didn't try multiple upshifts, fair point, probably would get very long.Kimmo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:19 amThe levers are cast aluminium, same as cheaper Shimano ones. You could probably take a fair bit of weight out of them with a Dremel, they're so damn beefy. Pretty sure they'd survive crashes better than Campy or SRAM, since the brake lever moves sideways.
Before mounting them I was hopeful the throw would be okay, but like I said, it turns out to be crap enough to discourage shifts. Multiple shifts are possible pulling the cable, but you have to push so far to make the first one happen, you don't feel like pushing much further.
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby familyguy » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:43 pm
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001055286720.html
2570gr with chain and cassette puts it in 10s 5700 territory, possibly a shade heavier (I weighed a 5700 std cranks/BSA BB/caliper brakes/RD/band FD/brifters at 2034gr.)
Will it be a total waste of time and money out of the box? Will it work for a while then pack it in? Will spares be unavailable if required? Will it even arrive? Will it exceed all expectations? These questions and more may be answered* in time, once it arrives and goes onto a bike.
Jim
* they also may not be answered.
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby blizzard » Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:41 pm
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Re: Sensah Empire
Postby bianchi928 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:26 pm
I am looking forward to watching how this goes.
Cheers
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