the Crazy eDevice rider thread

[blizzard]

Eh. Don't ask when some kids start riding motos. I was riding 80cc trail bikes when I was 8 which was a lot heavier and had a lot more power than a 36kph/500w mini fat bike Even the most basic off road motorbike that nearly every kid from 3-7 starts on has more power than that. The legendary PW50! https://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/product ... d/fun/pw50

FYI you can legally start competitive motorbike racing in Queensland when you are 7 years old (club to national level). 4-6 its recreational only however they are permitted to attend practice days/testing/coaching sessions.

Yeah but you probably weren't riding down footpaths or to school on them. Three number of teenagers zipping around the foreshore on the Gold Coast on these style ebikes is ridiculous, they definitely wouldn't be doing the same on a moto.

[Lukeyboy]

To school? As in a school day? Unfortunately not as I would have loved to but they didn't have any motorbike parking. That's not to say that I didn't cut some laps around the school oval during some weekends on the old peewee

Kids will be kids. If its not an electric bike it would just be a normal bike or they'd be on the playstation instead. Get out there and have fun.

Times are different now. There's too much policing and everyone now has a hardline stance that makes them feel right and portrays everyone else in a negative view regardless. Its a very similar stance to the motorist vs bike rider mentality. Us vs them. And with social media/mobile phones everyone is quick to whip it out and kick up a stick - most of the time over nothing. There are certain members on here that love to point out the few escooters riding in a bike lane or doing 32kph on a bikeway while totally ignoring the fact on the same ride their strava data says they were sustaining 55-60kph in a 40kph zone or 35kph in 10kph shared zones. Or even using the old line that "because they can pedal faster on a bike means that they have more ability" which isn't always the case. It's simply deflecting any blame from local/state governments rather than addressing infrastructure short falls and increasing expenditure in budgets on active transport. If more people rode bikes we'd have more cycling infrastructure. If more people rode escooters there'd be more escooter provisions. More active transport users means a different mind shift from other people such as motorists, cyclists, pedestrians and the like. That mindset would also influence policy changes. Policy changes would be general laws, housing/planning laws (BCC recently changed planning laws that increased car parking and minimised active transport provisions in apartment buildings - basically a car park for every bedroom), infrastructure delivery etc.

[Mr Purple]

I must say I worked a few years in emergency so I've seen what happens when you put children on motorbikes. Highlights including a 7yo having a seizure in front of me from a skull fracture and subdural haemorrhage, a 6yo requiring a nephrectomy and splenectomy, and one competitive event at Maleny where we saw 17 kids, all under 10, come in with fractures. One of my colleagues actually reported them to the department of child safety.

Even then I'm happy to say there's a time and place for that. That place is away from cars, away from pedestrians, and preferably away from trees. 500W grommets on bikeways is not particularly something I want to be seeing any time soon.

My main complaint here though was with the retailer. And their willingness to tell the public that a 500W motorbike shaped device without pedals targeted at children was perfectly legal to ride on public roads and bikeways in Queensland. Which it clearly isn't.

Agree the infrastructure (and lack of) is the biggest issue facing all of us though.

[blizzard]

To school? As in a school day? Unfortunately not as I would have loved to but they didn't have any motorbike parking. That's not to say that I didn't cut some laps around the school oval during some weekends on the old peewee

Kids will be kids. If its not an electric bike it would just be a normal bike or they'd be on the playstation instead. Get out there and have fun.

Times are different now. There's too much policing and everyone now has a hardline stance that makes them feel right and portrays everyone else in a negative view regardless. Its a very similar stance to the motorist vs bike rider mentality. Us vs them. And with social media/mobile phones everyone is quick to whip it out and kick up a stick - most of the time over nothing. There are certain members on here that love to point out the few escooters riding in a bike lane or doing 32kph on a bikeway while totally ignoring the fact on the same ride their strava data says they were sustaining 55-60kph in a 40kph zone or 35kph in 10kph shared zones. Or even using the old line that "because they can pedal faster on a bike means that they have more ability" which isn't always the case. It's simply deflecting any blame from local/state governments rather than addressing infrastructure short falls and increasing expenditure in budgets on active transport. If more people rode bikes we'd have more cycling infrastructure. If more people rode escooters there'd be more escooter provisions. More active transport users means a different mind shift from other people such as motorists, cyclists, pedestrians and the like. That mindset would also influence policy changes. Policy changes would be general laws, housing/planning laws (BCC recently changed planning laws that increased car parking and minimised active transport provisions in apartment buildings - basically a car park for every bedroom), infrastructure delivery etc.

I agree, definitely a lot of hypocrisy regarding rider behaviour. Generally, the more people out of cars the better, hopefully it will lead to more segregated bike paths / lanes.

I find similar numbers of poorly behaving cyclists and PMD riders. Maybe its because I mainly ride commutes on the V1, I find most scooter riders reasonably well behaved. Occasionally get the hoon going 60km/h+ but most are between 25-35km/h.

I find the hire scooter riders around the city far more dangerous, they arent doing 25km/h+ but are often erratic, weaving and generally unsteady.

[CmdrBiggles]

I find the hire scooter riders around the city far more dangerous, they arent doing 25km/h+ but are often erratic, weaving and generally unsteady.

Yes indeed. A serious problem that the hire companies and cities who benefit financially are reluctant to address. It's a cosy relationship with few binding rules and punishments other than what Police can routinely mete out.

But let's not get all one-sided about e-machines.

There are things about cyclists too.

I get my heckles up as a driver when I see roadies wobbling all around the road from left to centreline.
Are they drunk?
Are they high on the herbs?
Whooping at the Wahoo, or
just inattentive, unrefined? You shouldn't be wobbling, bobbing, bouncing or swaying — apart from a waste of energy, it imparts a nervousness on drivers behind who can be unsure of what to do next.
Less eyeballing computers and more focused attention to riding stability and the shared road.

[zebee]

I must say I worked a few years in emergency so I've seen what happens when you put children on motorbikes. Highlights including a 7yo having a seizure in front of me from a skull fracture and subdural haemorrhage, a 6yo requiring a nephrectomy and splenectomy, and one competitive event at Maleny where we saw 17 kids, all under 10, come in with fractures. One of my colleagues actually reported them to the department of child safety.

What was the horse tally then?

One of my concussions was horse related. No broken bones but that's more luck than judgement (and doing most of the early falling off from Snowball who took his job of teaching me to ride seriously and was careful where he bucked me off)

Most dangerous animal in Australia, the horse.

[Scott No Mates]

Another eventful night on Victoria Road Drummoyne/Rozelle last night.

I first spotted a foodie on his e-missile going down the 24hr bus lane (perfectly legal) over the Iron Cove Bridge, fully resplendent in hi-vis but no lights, then straight through the red light at Terry St and again through the red arrow onto Darling St almost bowling over a pedestrian crossing the road.

[hunch]

Times are different now. There's too much policing and everyone now has a hardline stance that makes them feel right and portrays everyone else in a negative view regardless.

If anything, I'd say it's very much the opposite compared to years ago, very little police visibility other than blitz periods and automation of only a couple of offense categories. Half the people now seem unaware of basic road rules, that would have resulted in either a kicking from police or hundreds in fines, especially if you were on a motorcycle.....random licence checks anyone, old enough to remember the "good old days"?

To use your example of young kids racing, the old ACU only permitted you to start racing at 16....so a bit more hardline then I'd say. You progressed with next to zero training through C > B > A grade.....if you were any good. The young kids now are fairly restricted on bikes they can use and need to be trained/coached before they're let loose, in stark contrast with all the kids tripling on e things at speed in silly public settings.

Still seem to kill a few youngsters a year in Europe racing the tiddlers too.

[Mr Purple]

Loads of crazy e-device riders in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xldraCEWkbs&t=12s

A highlight is at 8:00 - e-scooter rider behaving like an idiot reacting to a car driver also acting like an idiot and grabbing a big handful of front brake to yell abuse and go over the handlebars. There are no winners in that one except physics.

Also the same guy randomly opening car doors from his Lime scooter in Melbourne. Not sure what that's about.

[Mr Purple]

E-dingbats out in force today on the bikeways. Several doing 60km/hr+ coming the other way, but the special one was the guy in high-vis on a high powered e-scooter without a helmet a few of us met on the south side of the Goodwill Bridge.

First he came flying off the footpath and almost took me out. I was busy avoiding him, but the guy behind me actually yelled at him. Then he tried to pass me while I was doing 600W up the steep bit of the veloway and completely ran out of steam and almost took out a cyclist coming down it, to get yelled at again. Then sat right on my tail at 35km/hr for three kilometres before finally sneaking past on an uphill bit and then slowing right down again. Knowing these guys are usually on meth, I didn't say a word, but plenty of passing cyclists had a few things to say to him.

Get home and find three of my KOMs up a 15% climb had been taken out by a guy on a one wheel doing 37km/hr. Flagged that, I'm not having any of that rubbish!

[Cycling Wombat]

A few comments on recent posts
- The best KOMs are where they've been doing +90kph haha
- there are very few police around these days. I think the govts need to start doing PSAs etc to educate the public on what use to be general common knowledge and behaviour in Australia. Keep left etc and even just basic road rules.
- personally for me is not that the ebikes can go fast, it's that people are going too fast in inappropriate areas. Saw a kid on a bicycle in Mosman last night almost hit a woman and child from behind on the footpath because he was riding like an idiot. It's just general stupidity which seems to be on the rise.

[Andy01]

Unfortunately additional power + young males (with immature brains) = recipe for disaster.

It has been like that for as long as I can remember (thinking back to the 80's) - whether it be motorbikes, cars, or now e-devices. It has been a thing in Australia for years, possibly less so now than 20 (or more) years ago, where most young male's "dream" was to have a Aussie Big 6 as a P plater, and often ended up with aging ex-fleet Commodores or Falcons that could be bought for next to nothing, and because they had been flogged and often had high mileage (hence the bargain prices), the motor still had waaaay more power than a P plater could handle and the brakes and suspension, AND the nut behind the wheel, were just not up to the task.

Now, one might argue that many P platers are in more sensible cars - usually smaller and less powerful, and often newer with better safety features, and many youngsters seem to want the "off-road" capable ute (my nephew is a 19yo 2nd year apprentice fitter) which isn't necessarily safer but usually has less performance available.

But a whole new breed of "hoons" are appearing on these over-powered e-scooters. Give a 14yo boy a scooter capable of doing 85km/h, and he will do his level best to use that power - but the brain & experience are not up to the task of deciding when (or if) it is safe to do so.

[blizzard]

So Domino's in Queen St, has delivery bikes that have a throttle. I was following one today, and the rider wasn't pedalling at all... Surprising for a legitimate company.

[elantra]

So Domino's in Queen St, has delivery bikes that have a throttle. I was following one today, and the rider wasn't pedalling at all... Surprising for a legitimate company.

Correct me if I am wrong but these e-devices (electric motorcycle scooter) I think are legal on Qld Roads/footpaths - as long as they are used within the speed limit (25kph on road and 12 kph on footpaths etc)

But of course totally illegal on NSW and SA roads (and footpaths) - at any speed.

[jasonc]

Elantra- not throttle in Australia at anything above 6km/h

[Shred11]

So Domino's in Queen St… the rider wasn't pedalling at all... Surprising for a legitimate company.

I think you’ll find that each shop is a franchise and the local owner is doing whatever he thinks can get him a competitive advantage.

I guess it will come to a halt when a Dominoe’s rider takes out a pedestrian on one of these unregistered electric motor bikes and gets some bad press. Head office will issue an edict to all the franchisees and it will stop.

[zebee]

I guess it will come to a halt when a Dominoe’s rider takes out a pedestrian on one of these unregistered electric motor bikes and gets some bad press. Head office will issue an edict to all the franchisees and it will stop.

We know many delivery riders use illegal bikes. And have been saying for years that one day someone will hit a ped and there will be an outcry.

Has any ped been hit? There was that girl in I think Newcastle? Hit by a scooter rider who scarpered but that didn't change anything probably cos NSW bans those anyway. But there was no follow up of any kind about all the illegal ones being sold and ridden here.

Uber riders are getting cleaned up but none of the cases that have made the news I have seen have mentioned illegal bikes.


Personally I don't think even cleaning up someone famous or seriously photogenic will do it because dealing with the plague will be too expensive. You'd have to make selling/renting them illegal and then spend money and manpower hunting down the places that do that. And money and manpower hunting down the riders, most of whom will just bunk off. How will a cop in a car catch them? Yeah more than one cop and more than one car, again that's expensive.

There was a case in NSW recently about a tourist being hit on George St by a bike that wasn't supposed to be there and the tourist was the one charged! So dunno relying on NSW police and Justice dept will get any sort of outcome anyone here would want!

Also I bet JB HiFi would have a word to a polly or two about them selling the scooters. Uber and Dominos will likely have one about ebikes.

[blizzard]

I think the main difference is Domino's riders are employees and the store / corporate provides the bikes. The food apps everyone is a private contractor, byo bike and I'm sure Uber has a training Preso on safe riding / edevice legality with no enforcement so they can say they provided training and it was contractor's choice to disregard company policy.

[Anrai]

I live within sight of the Hobart-Glenorchy Intercity Cycleway (dog-free shared path despite the name) and while I don't see anything too crazy (at least since the recent ban on petrol-converted bikes!) I've spotted a few scooterists who might be running speeds comparable to street traffic.
But I'm curious where else you'd be able to put these high speed PMDs here? Hobart/Glenorchy have very little unused space suitable for another alternate path and the suggestion I've seen for removing a car lane would only be possible on the highway.
I'm less experienced with habits across the river, though I'll note within 15 minutes of picking up my new bike in Bellerive I was (via Clarence Foreshore Trail) low-speed weaving around dog walkers, older pedestrians walking where they please, and a primary school releasing its students directly onto the path (also wherever they pleased), so I'd expect any PMD user aiming to maintain (or exceed) our 25km/h shared path limit to have an interesting time.

I'm also not surprised Brisbane is mentioned so heavily here; I lived in Chapel Hill in '09/'10 and would regularly find myself walking faster than morning traffic on Moggil Rd or some side streets.
Capalaba having an e-scooter fatality was also interesting to me, I wouldn't think a suburb where the footpaths are for 4WD storage and the police pull you over for midday walking is very safe for alternative transport options.

[Mr Purple]

I'm also not surprised Brisbane is mentioned so heavily here; I lived in Chapel Hill in '09/'10 and would regularly find myself walking faster than morning traffic on Moggil Rd or some side streets.
Capalaba having an e-scooter fatality was also interesting to me, I wouldn't think a suburb where the footpaths are for 4WD storage and the police pull you over for midday walking is very safe for alternative transport options.

I believe that fatality was on a pedestrian crossing on a slip lane on Old Cleveland Road, so may have been far more the car making an error than the PMD user. Mind you, Capalaba is also methamphetamine central and I've seen some very high speed (80km/hr+) e-devices through there.

Moggill Road remains a death zone for cyclists. I accidentally ended up on it once and bailed very quickly.

[Retrobyte]

This bloke was going pretty fast on his illegal eBike that looks like a motor cycle. I heard him before I saw him.

[Cycling Wombat]

At least he was using a blinker...

[redsonic]

At least he was using a blinker...

That's to show he's half a hazard...

[nezumi]

I had one like that the other day. Not quite as motorbike looking, but I was holding 42 km/h and was unable to keep pace with him.

[jasonc]