Will 12sp AXS work on a old 1980s steel frame

[Vanos]

Hi,
Just looking to see if anyone build a 12sp AXS etap or any 12 speed on an old 1980s (Colnago super) steel frame wiht 130mm dropout.

I've seen an 11sp Etap built on an Eddy Merckx but 11sp is rare and expensive.

Thanks.

[Duck!]

As long as the dropout spacing is 130mm, it *should* work, but complications are possible. If the dropouts are forward-opening, semi-horizontal the chainstay may connect relatively high, which will affect clearance for the chain on the 10T top gear.

Forward-opening dropouts can also raise the possibility of the frame not having an inbuilt derailleur hanger, instead requiring an axle-mount derailleur, which these days is only really low-end stuff. However there are axle-mount hanger adaptors available, so it's not the end of the world on that front.

Due to that tiny 10T top sprocket, the cassette requires a speacial freewheel body, XDR in SRAM-speak. Most good hub manufacturers offer the XDR driver as an option, but many older hubs won't, so you'll need to ensure your rear wheel is compatible.

Which then leads into whether the frame is built for 700c or 27" wheels; the latter are slightly larger, and that affects brake pad alignment on the rims. 27" rims will not be available off the shelf with XDR-compatible hubs, so if the frame is built for 27" you will need custom-built wheels.

[trailgumby]

As long as the dropout spacing is 130mm, it *should* work, but complications are possible. If the dropouts are forward-opening, semi-horizontal the chainstay may connect relatively high, which will affect clearance for the chain on the 10T top gear.
...
Which then leads into whether the frame is built for 700c or 27" wheels; the latter are slightly larger, and that affects brake pad alignment on the rims. 27" rims will not be available off the shelf with XDR-compatible hubs, so if the frame is built for 27" you will need custom-built wheels.

'
Just want to say how much I appreciate your thoroughness, accuracy and attention to detail when sharing your expertise in this forum. Love your work - so helpful. I will likely never want to implement this particular combination (because, SRAM ) but I just want to call out my admiration for quality impact analysis.

If I could get the same quality level in my field (IT Service Management) I would be a very happy man!

[Thoglette]

….you will need custom-built wheels.

….or brake calipers with a sensible amount of reach.
(Eg. Tektro R559).

If you’re lucky the existing ones will be adjustable to cover 700C and 27” rims.

As Duck said, it’s a bit of a luck dip.

[Vanos]

Thanks for the replies. It's sounding very promising. I am sure I will run into lots of setbacks.

Project Colnago:

My project in progress is in the link above. My plan is to use it as a SS until I can get all the AXS stuff.

I am currently using 700c track wheels with 5mm spacers on the rear dropout.

The ultimate plan is to run 12sp AXS 1x with a narrow wide silver front chainring using the new wireless AXS blips. This way I can keep most parts "Retro.

For the rear wheel, would using an old 11sp wheel swapping out for an XDR freehub that can take 12sp cassette work?

Thanks

[Duck!]

OK, so looking at the pic, as far as I can see with poor enlarged resolution, the frame has an inbuilt derailleur hanger, and the drive side chainstay connects fairly low on the dropout, which should work out OK for clearance to allow the chain to run on the 10T gear.

As for fitting an XDR driver, that will depend on the manufacturer and model of the rear hub; although there are many fundamentally similar designs around, the dimensional details render freewheel bodies/drivers specific to particular hubs

[MichaelB]

Maybe a dumb question, but can you get an XDR hub as a qr ?

[P!N20]

That's an, *ahem*, aggressive stem you're running there - looks like the wheels weren't the only track bike components.

Don't want to stop your progress, but brake levers on a cockpit like that are going to be hard to use comfortably.

Cool frame though.

[Duck!]

Maybe a dumb question, but can you get an XDR hub as a qr ?

Should be able to, XDR is only a freewheel body, not a complete hub.

[Vanos]

That's an, *ahem*, aggressive stem you're running there - looks like the wheels weren't the only track bike components.

Don't want to stop your progress, but brake levers on a cockpit like that are going to be hard to use comfortably.

Cool frame though.

It was the only stem the "online shop' had with the bar combos. It didn't look that aggressive from their pics. I ride a Canyon Aeroad 55-56 top tube and this bike is a 54. I measured the reach and it's only a little bit lower compare to the Aeroad. I haven't finalised the setup yet as I am still waiting for the BB to come from eBay.

With regard to XDR and quick release, I think you can get adaptors/end caps that take QR. I need to look into this a bit more.

[familyguy]

Those bars are new with an old school bend? You always have fun and games making modern brifters/shakes fitting retro bends. Ultegra 6700 on Cinelli 64 sucked. Campagnolo V2 on Cinelli 66 was OK. SRAM on Nitto B115 was the best.



I've got an 11s group that I was about to chuck on a steel frame, but the 124mm rear wouldn't respace evenly enough for me to warrant it. This might get me into rethinking it properly!

Jim

[Vanos]

Those bars are new with an old school bend? You always have fun and games making modern brifters/shakes fitting retro bends. Ultegra 6700 on Cinelli 64 sucked. Campagnolo V2 on Cinelli 66 was OK. SRAM on Nitto B115 was the best.
Jim

They're Nitto track bar. I end up getting a less aggressive stem as I can't get the desired fit.
I've just finished building/setting it up as a single speed for now.

Next phase is 12sp setup. This might take a while as more $ is required. For now going to enjoy riding as a SS for now.

[Duck!]

Track bar curve is likely to argue with any brake levers, shifting or otherwise.

[Vanos]

Update:
Finally finished my "Retro bike project.
https://imgur.com/h3mjXmG

Some issues: The Italian bottom bracket seems to un-screw itself slowly as you ride. I've applied some loctite but it still un-screw itself not all the way out but it increases the chainline. The existing chainline is already bad as it is.

I am running 12speed SRAM Force AXS with a 10-33 cassette. Front chainring is a 50T Garbaruk narrow wide chainring.

Shifting is ok on the way up (ie on the way up the 33 cog). Shifting down is ok until you get to the middle of the cassette, then it only shift in two cogs. But it still shifts all the way down to the 10 cog. Tried micro adjustment to no avail so i just left it.

Cheers.

[P!N20]

[P!N20]

Some issues: The Italian bottom bracket seems to un-screw itself slowly as you ride. I've applied some loctite but it still un-screw itself not all the way out but it increases the chainline. The existing chainline is already bad as it is.

Ah yes, precession. Make sure the drive side cup is done up really tight.

Shifting is ok on the way up (ie on the way up the 33 cog). Shifting down is ok until you get to the middle of the cassette, then it only shift in two cogs. But it still shifts all the way down to the 10 cog. Tried micro adjustment to no avail so i just left it.

What are you using for shifters?

[jaseyjase]

Some issues: The Italian bottom bracket seems to un-screw itself slowly as you ride. I've applied some loctite but it still un-screw itself not all the way out but it increases the chainline. The existing chainline is already bad as it is.

Ah yes, precession. Make sure the drive side cup is done up really tight.

Shifting is ok on the way up (ie on the way up the 33 cog). Shifting down is ok until you get to the middle of the cassette, then it only shift in two cogs. But it still shifts all the way down to the 10 cog. Tried micro adjustment to no avail so i just left it.

What are you using for shifters?

think he said he was using AXS aero blips.

sounds like maybe you need the app and reprogram?

[P!N20]

think he said he was using AXS aero blips.

Well that’s me out.

[warthog1]

Nice to see an old frame with modern gear.
I'd go 2x on the front personally though.

[bychosis]

Nice work. Shame the derailleur is so big, black and chunky. Would really suit much more stainless steel/chrome on it.

[familyguy]

Proof of concept, nice. This is where AXS has it over Di2 for neo-retro.

[Vanos]

Nice work. Shame the derailleur is so big, black and chunky. Would really suit much more stainless steel/chrome on it.

I was looking at the 11sp Axs which is smaller with some chrome on it but it doesn't have the wireless blips and putting those black shifters would ruin the retro look.

I wish they made a chrome version of these AXS rear derailleur.

[Vanos]

Nice to see an old frame with modern gear.
I'd go 2x on the front personally though.

Having a chunky black axs front derailleur would ruin the retro look. Also there would be issue getting it to work due to the unavailability of after market chainring options.

I think 1x is much cleaner. Even the Tour De France champion is using this particular set up

[warthog1]

Nice to see an old frame with modern gear.
I'd go 2x on the front personally though.

Having a chunky black axs front derailleur would ruin the retro look. Also there would be issue getting it to work due to the unavailability of after market chainring options.

I think 1x is much cleaner. Even the Tour De France champion is using this particular set up

I care less about the look than what it is like to ride. No good for climbing as is imo.
You have done a great job though. Congrats

[Vanos]

At 10kg with a 50T/10-33, this is definitely not a climbing bike . I have a light carbon bike for climbing. This bike is for the flats.

This bike is all about the feel of riding a steel bike while preserving the retro look of the 80s as much possible.

The old school Araya alloy wheels are really smooth on smooth tarmac but can be jarring on rough road.

Next thing I want to try is fitting some carbon wheels on this bike to see how it feel with steel.