Campagnolo fading away?

[Jean]

I had cause to look at the Campag website the other day for the first time in a few years. There wasn't much to look at. These days their only groups are a few permutations of Chorus, Record and Super Record. The middle and lower end road groups no longer exist, and while there is the gravel group, it's hard to imagine they are selling many sets.

There's still a good selection of Campag wheel sets, and Fulcrum is still selling wheels too, but the whole show doesn't give off an air of rude health.

It would be a great pity for it to disappear, but is it already doomed?

[P!N20]

Surprised it has lasted this long, I guess pedigree and passion from their hey day in the 70's and 80's provides a fair bit of mileage.

Expensive and mechanically inferior to comparable groupsets...or so I'm told. Didn't hurt that Pog won a few classics with it.

I'm a Campy fan, but my interest declines following the 8 speed era.

[open roader]

I'm a huge Campag fan, however I think they had a major brain fade when they scrapped the thumb shifters for Super Record wireless. I adore the Campag thumb shifters and will not fork out any amount of money for Campag shifters that are imitations of the other two big brands. Thumb shifting made Campag - Campag.............

No lower end gruppos avail at present and the exorbitant cost of the new SR wireless also makes me wonder if Campagnolo is a fading star. I do take minor comfort in the fact a rim brake gruppo is still avail, however one wonders how long rim brakes will remain relevant to a company that seems to now just wanna be a dark coloured Sramano gruopset.

My 20 cents worth says Campag reached it's zenith with the Ti UT crankset 11 speed mechanical Super Record gruppo which I could actually afford. My own SR 2012 group set has run without a hint of trouble and is on it's 4th bike build now. Aside from new cables each build it functions perfectly, is lightweight enough for most to ignore any WW urges and has a timeless appearance in my subjective opinion.

[warthog1]

I have never ridden it. Always been expensive and used different freehub.
Maybe I should have but Shimano has always worked and been affordable.

Regardless I hope it stays. More options being available is a positive.

[AUbicycles]

It would be nicer for bike riders (for more choice) to have a bigger selection than merely picking the Shimano model.

I think the real competition will come from cheaper chinese brands who may need a few more years to mature.

[blizzard]

As someone who only started riding in 2018, I have no romantic notion or nostalgia for Campy groupsets. The only one that interests me at all is Ekar as a unique selling point compared to Shimano and SRAM offerings.

[Jean]

Surprised it has lasted this long, I guess pedigree and passion from their hey day in the 70's and 80's provides a fair bit of mileage.

Expensive and mechanically inferior to comparable groupsets...or so I'm told. Didn't hurt that Pog won a few classics with it.

I'm a Campy fan, but my interest declines following the 8 speed era.

Fair enough about cost for the upper end groups, though the mid- and lower-end groups, when they existed, were always price competitive with Shimano, often a bit cheaper. Though that was in the now gone heady days of free-rein online overseas shopping. I confess the price of a current 12-speed cassette makes me wince.

Mechanically inferior, I'd dispute with some vigour. I've run 8-speed (Chorus), 10-speed Ultrashift (Centaur) and 12-speed (Record) over the years, and all have been utterly reliable, durable and a pleasure to use. I've not used any hydraulic brake/electronic shift stuff, so can't comment on those groups. I use Shimano on my MTB (2x10 XT) and mostly find it the same, though one collapsed XT cassette spider a few years ago is a significant blot on the record – cassette cogs on an alloy spider, on a mountain bike, who thought that was a good idea?

I like my more than ten year old Centaur 10-speed so much I've bought extra shifter bodies for the spares box to keep it going as long as I possibly can.

[P!N20]

Mechanically inferior, I'd dispute with some vigour.

Fair enough, I was being a bit harsh. Although I do know some people that describe modern Campy as agricultural compared to the Shimano equivalent. I guess true Campy-philes will value the tactility in that.

[Thoglette]

Mechanically inferior, I'd dispute with some vigour.

Fair enough, I was being a bit harsh. Although I do know some people that describe modern Campy as agricultural compared to the Shimano equivalent. I guess true Campy-philes will value the tactility in that.

I would say that the low end Brifters are (still) crap, whereas the 2nd gen ergos are near perfect. I use both. But with Shimano cassettes & hubs: the range of the former and seals on the latter (late last century ultegra and dura) make that a no-brainer

[2wheels_mond]

As someone who started riding in 2012, I also don't have the nostalgia of old Campagnolo parts. However, I did pick up a bike with 9 speed Chorus on it a few years ago, and finding out that I quite liked the ergonomics of it, I subsequently have bought 10 speed Chorus and 11 speed Potenza groupsets.

I think Campag missed a few key market trends in the last few years.

- Campagnolo Potenza and Centaur being rim brake only at launch. By 2016 (the year both Potenza and Dura Ace R9100 launched), the tide had well and truly indicated that disc brakes were here to stay in some form or another. The launch of Dura Ace R9100 really improved Shimano's lever ergonomics for both the electronic and hydraulic shifters. Had Potenza launched with disc brakes, Campagnolo could have had a huge in with the OEM market by having good-feeling hydraulic road shifters (by comparison, Shimano's 105 equivalent RS505 shifters looked and felt awful). However, disc brakes didn't come until a year later, and were not cheap enough to compete with their Ultegra equivalents in the OEM market.
- Gradual cheapening of electronic components. Now that SRAM and Shimano have electronic drivetrains at the Apex/105 level, Campagnolo have been left way behind. Since first launching 12-speed, Campagnolo electronic has been at the Super Record level only. Campagnolo seemed to be a little burnt by the (relative) failure of Athena EPS earlier on in its life.
- Chainring BCDs. Campag have changed chainring BCDs many times over the years, and third party chainrings are a rare find. For example, their 12 speed groupsets have three separate BCDs (112/145 [original], 96 [Chorus subcompact], 88/121 [SR wireless]). Luckily the first-party chainrings are very high quality and long-lasting.
- Super Record wireless launch was lacklustre, and journos clearly only had a pretty short time to evaluate it. Compare with the hype that SRAM have been able to generate with their products, combined with good availability at launch.

It's a shame, because I think their products have been great as long as you can live with the intricacies (e.g. different cables, freehubs, cassettes, etc.). The ergonomics, functionality and longevity are excellent.

Their other issue is that while mechanical has always been Campagnolo's bread and butter, Shimano really nailed mechanical with the second-generation 11 speed stuff. Excellent shifting, slimmer hoods (somewhere Shimano really struggled), compatibility with wide ranges, easier setup, couldn't ask for anything more.

Agree with the above post that Shimano/SRAM competition will be coming from China over the next 10 years. It will be interesting to see if either Sensah or L-Twoo can provide any serious inroads at the OEM level. Microshift seem to be attempting to move into the gravel space - they've had some good progress in the MTB space but that's helped a lot by not having to worry about brakes - they'll find it much harder to make serious inroads for gravel without hydraulic brakes.

[DavidS]

As someone who recently chose Campag on a custom built bike I would be very disappointed if they go.

I got Campag mechanical 12 speed Record with hydraulic discs on my new bike and it is excellent. The shifting is quick and precise, love the thumb shifter (although these are the only brifters I have ever used) and it is a pleasure to use.

But the prospects for Campagnolo don't look great.

It looks to me like their wheels would be decent sellers, they do seem popular and competitive with the best.

The issue is the groupsets and I'm not sure Campagnolo know what they want to be in that space. The latest Super Record wireless is a logical move and I find the criticism that the rear deraileur is too bulky a bit rich when you look at the rear SRAM deraileur - any rear mech with a battery ain't going to be small. But it offers nothing different to SRAM or Shimano. The loss of the thumb shifter means there is nothing special about the Campagnolo groups, they must have done it for a reason but I can't see it. Campagnolo need to offer something different to survive - the thumb shifter was different, I don't know anything about electric groupsets but they need a point of difference. One area I reckon they should try to target is to continue to produce high quality mechanical groupsets. It wouldn't be a really big market but if they could offer something with decent price, absolute reliability and decent looks then I reckon they could own a nice niche in the market. I reckon there is a sizeable market for the simplicity and reliability of mechanical shifting, I deliberately chose mechanical as I am of the view that the simplicity of a bicycle is one of its best features.

Just hope they sort out what they want to do as losing Campagnolo would be a travesty. If the brand goes bust you would likely see the name bought up and used by some mob with no connection to the original and that would be horrible (like MG).

DS

[2wheels_mond]

One area I reckon they should try to target is to continue to produce high quality mechanical groupsets. It wouldn't be a really big market but if they could offer something with decent price, absolute reliability and decent looks then I reckon they could own a nice niche in the market. I reckon there is a sizeable market for the simplicity and reliability of mechanical shifting, I deliberately chose mechanical as I am of the view that the simplicity of a bicycle is one of its best features.

In this respect, it's sad to see high-end frame manufacturers design frames in such a way that mechanical shifting is impossible, or severely compromised. You're almost forced to go with niche brands or custom options to get a modern high-end frame but keep sensible routing (either external or semi-internal) required for good mechanical shifting.

[ldrcycles]

I have never ridden it. Always been expensive and used different freehub.
Maybe I should have but Shimano has always worked and been affordable.

Regardless I hope it stays. More options being available is a positive.

I didn't quite understand the point of Campag until I got a bike with it, 10 speed Chorus was so wildly different from any Shimano group I'd used. "Better" will vary with individual preferences of course, but the shifting is fantastic and after the first ride I "got it".

[warthog1]

I have never ridden it. Always been expensive and used different freehub.
Maybe I should have but Shimano has always worked and been affordable.

Regardless I hope it stays. More options being available is a positive.

I didn't quite understand the point of Campag until I got a bike with it, 10 speed Chorus was so wildly different from any Shimano group I'd used. "Better" will vary with individual preferences of course, but the shifting is fantastic and after the first ride I "got it".

Cheers.
Most I know who have ridden with it seem to like it.
I have always been on a budget and Shimano I know works and has been cost effective in comparison.

[g-boaf]

really, most groupsets today are quite trouble free and reliable, so that's not much of a selling point, that's expected.

Shimano probably has the benefit of being like Toyota, it's almost a default choice.

Electronic shifting just works and you no longer have messing about with shifter cables. 6 years now of using SRAM E-Tap and a few years before than with Shimano Di2 and no issues to report. Mechanical shifting will probably stick around but as a basic entry level option.

[DavidS]

One area I reckon they should try to target is to continue to produce high quality mechanical groupsets. It wouldn't be a really big market but if they could offer something with decent price, absolute reliability and decent looks then I reckon they could own a nice niche in the market. I reckon there is a sizeable market for the simplicity and reliability of mechanical shifting, I deliberately chose mechanical as I am of the view that the simplicity of a bicycle is one of its best features.

In this respect, it's sad to see high-end frame manufacturers design frames in such a way that mechanical shifting is impossible, or severely compromised. You're almost forced to go with niche brands or custom options to get a modern high-end frame but keep sensible routing (either external or semi-internal) required for good mechanical shifting.

Wow, that is a real pity. The bike I bought earlier this year has mechanical gears for the very reason that the simplicity of bicycles is one of the beautiful things about bicycles. We need to keep the option of mechanical gearing, in my mind electronic shifting is over-complicating things - it has its place and lots of people rave about how good it is - but a simple, reliable mechanical system which works extremely well like my Record 12 speed is more than enough for just about everyone. It works, it is easy to maintain and there is less to go wrong.

Yes, getting Campagnolo is an indulgence given their pricing, but they have a place in the industry, they just need to work out what that place is. This has become way more difficult with such quality offerings from Shimano and Sram, and will just get harder as the cheap Chinese companies raise their game. But Campagnolo need to somehow work out a niche they can own.

DS

[elantra]

I have never ridden it. Always been expensive and used different freehub.
Maybe I should have but Shimano has always worked and been affordable.

Regardless I hope it stays. More options being available is a positive.

I didn't quite understand the point of Campag until I got a bike with it, 10 speed Chorus was so wildly different from any Shimano group I'd used. "Better" will vary with individual preferences of course, but the shifting is fantastic and after the first ride I "got it".

Yes absolutely.
Like most of us baby boomers or gen X whatever in Oz we cut our teeth on Shimano and Suntour downtube shifters and then eventually “graduated” onto 8/9/10 speed Shimano STI brifters.
But I was never really that impressed with my 9sp Dura Ace brifters with the 2 flappy gear levers.
I thought that the 2010 era 9speed Sora levers with the thumb jigger was a definite improvement
Seriously !
But anyway about a year ago I chanced upon a garage sale and got my hands on a nice old bike with 8-speed Campag brifters.
Which I have now transplanted onto the road bike which originally came with the Sora shifters
(The Sora shifters didn’t last more than 5 or 6 years)
Happiness is now using my 8 speed Campagnolo shifters (with a 7 speed Shimano Cassette or freewheel- as the spacing is about the same)

As for 10 speed Shimano brifters, we’ll for me they are worse than the 9 speed DA ones, so they are gonna have to get replaced with something Campag

[warthog1]

Well north of 150k km on shimano shifters. They fit my hands, they work and they don't cost a motza. Just check the cable regularly and change it. Never had to do anything else apart from replace a broken lever after a crash.
11s cable on the gravel and the roadies with GS derailleur.
More importantly afaik more capacity than Campag.
36-11 on the gravelly and 32-11 on the roadies. Currently on 52/36 on the road. My next move will prob be 50/34 as 48/32 on the gravelly isn't really limiting me now as I age.

I'd try campag but given it is more expensive and has less capacity, it would in functional terms, mean I am paying more for something that is less versatile. Prob another reason it is headed out the door.
Sram now appears to be the company making new developments. Campag needs to get back to that it seems to me. If you are going to charge more, let it be for something others can't do.

[Comedian]

Well my problem is my 11 speed groupsets from 2013 are both going just fine. One has about 50k on it and the other just under 20. I thought maybe I'd shout the training bike a new groupset eventually. Will probably keep running the same groups while I can still get parts. Hopefully they'll be around then.

[MichaelB]

I’m agnostic re brand in many ways but did try Veloce in a 10sp version moons ago - worked fine but my mitts didn’t work with the thumb lever.

The REALLY interesting thing is the level of vitriol leveled at Campagnolo for their latest version on the WW forum.

WOW

I’m happy with how my Shimano works

[warthog1]

I’m agnostic re brand in many ways but did try Veloce in a 10sp version moons ago - worked fine but my mitts didn’t work with the thumb lever.

The REALLY interesting thing is the level of vitriol leveled at Campagnolo for their latest version on the WW forum.

WOW

I’m happy with how my Shimano works

That forum seems vitriol central. Ok for some info but they certainly don't hold back if they disagree or dislike something.

[Comedian]

I will say that I'm told Campy is far more common on bikes sold into Europe than it is here. The downfall of campy has been predicted for at least 10 years that I'm aware of. The other thing is - they seem to be doing ok in the premium market which would be the high margin stuff which is probably quite profitable. So that probably helps.

So might be a bit premature to call it. I hope.

[sobmal]

Had an 11speed shifter fail, can’t find a new one on any of my usual places and what I can find is crazy expensive.
Been a campy fan for a long time, but the lack of parts availability at a reasonable price looks to be signaling the end our relationship.
Looked for any 11 speed groups as a replacement, considering maybe Shimangnolo.. but nothing economical is available?
Looks that I need to go 12 speed to get anything new that’s rim brake and reasonably priced?
I just want a new shifter for my trusty olde 11 speed that I used to be able to get for a hundred bucks or so?
Managed to get a few parts for a rebuild kit for around $100.. so perhaps I can fix the shifter for now.
Bike groupo parts business is FUBAR and seems to be about engineered unavailability in the hope of getting us to junk our parts and upgrade to something 12 speed and unnecessary.

[DavidS]

Yeah, all the parts are damned pricey, hopefully they will last well. Although I'm not sure the higher end Shimano and Sram parts are much cheaper and I also wonder how long their parts are available.

The whole business wants you to buy the latest.

That said, Campagnolo does impose the Campy Tax.

I hope they survive and thrive, they make good gear but they know how to charge. But I figure Campagnolo do well on their wheels which would help keep everything going.

The new Super Record does look big, it is a reasonable criticism. But when I see the equivalent Shimano and Sram they look big and they ain't pretty either! Very happy to have chosen Record mechanical, it has been faultless.

DS

[jasonc]

I will say that I'm told Campy is far more common on bikes sold into Europe than it is here.

I have done some riding in Europe, especially Italy. Most Italians I ran into ran Shimano...