The Vuelta!
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Re: The Vuelta!
Postby blizzard » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:45 pm
Well done Sepp, the intra- team battle made for some extra interest. Also, well done to Kaden winning the green jerseym
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Re: The Vuelta!
Postby jasonc » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:08 pm
I think the media made more of the intrateam battle than was actually there
We've probably seen the only time that a single team will win all the grand tours in a year
For a team to get 9 weeks of racing perfectly is nigh on impossible. Kudos to jumbo visma and sepp kuss
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Re: The Vuelta!
Postby stevenaaus » Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:40 pm
Nice for Sepp, but shame about the racing being put on hold. I like to see the fastest guys duke it out.
Decent article about the race here A water carrier just won the hardest cycling race on the planet
Decent article about the race here A water carrier just won the hardest cycling race on the planet
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Re: The Vuelta!
Postby davehirst » Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:38 pm
I think this whole "racing put on hold" thing is rubbish. On any given day a rider in a team could be stronger than a team mate on any given stage. Should they then race each other for the win so the leader is not "given" the win.
Why have a team, maybe each should win if the stage suits thier style of riding.
It is a team sport, and the powers that be decide how its going to go, in the interests of the team.
Oh unless your marc soler
Why have a team, maybe each should win if the stage suits thier style of riding.
It is a team sport, and the powers that be decide how its going to go, in the interests of the team.
Oh unless your marc soler
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Re: The Vuelta!
Postby AndrewCowley » Wed Sep 20, 2023 3:55 pm
Saying a "water carrier" won is very unfair. He still had to be good enough over 3 weeks to win.
Had he cracked, then TJV would have undoubtedly switched to Plan B or C. He was good enough not to force them into making this decision. It is a team sport and in the case of a team being lucky enough to have 3 contenders that are all thereabouts capable of winning, then the team has every right to dictate the winner. Yes that means there are likely battles that didn't take place, but this is not TJV's fault. It is up to the other teams to mount a serious challenge.
I also think he is no more a "water carrier" than Geraint Thomas. This whole discussion is rather subjective.
The beauty of sport is that it sometimes throws up oddball results.
Had he cracked, then TJV would have undoubtedly switched to Plan B or C. He was good enough not to force them into making this decision. It is a team sport and in the case of a team being lucky enough to have 3 contenders that are all thereabouts capable of winning, then the team has every right to dictate the winner. Yes that means there are likely battles that didn't take place, but this is not TJV's fault. It is up to the other teams to mount a serious challenge.
I also think he is no more a "water carrier" than Geraint Thomas. This whole discussion is rather subjective.
The beauty of sport is that it sometimes throws up oddball results.
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Re: The Vuelta!
Postby find_bruce » Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:29 pm
I'm with Andrew, calling Kuss a water carrier is more than a bit harsh - he was good enough to finish 14th in the Giro & 12th in the Tour, while working in the service of his team leaders.
If there was a gift it was from the other teams on stage 6 - letting Jubmo-Visma put 4 riders in a big break was never a good idea. While Ineos Grenadiers, Soudal-QuickStep and Movistar put on a chase, it was too little too late. Valter could drop back to help Rog & Vingegaard, gifting Kuss the rare oportunity to ride for the stage & gained what turned out to be a critical 3 minutes on the rest of the contenders.
If there was a gift it was from the other teams on stage 6 - letting Jubmo-Visma put 4 riders in a big break was never a good idea. While Ineos Grenadiers, Soudal-QuickStep and Movistar put on a chase, it was too little too late. Valter could drop back to help Rog & Vingegaard, gifting Kuss the rare oportunity to ride for the stage & gained what turned out to be a critical 3 minutes on the rest of the contenders.
Anything you can do, I can do slower
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Re: The Vuelta!
Postby JPB » Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:03 pm
I know this is over simplistic but Bruce just nailed my take on the whole thing.find_bruce wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:29 pmI'm with Andrew, calling Kuss a water carrier is more than a bit harsh - he was good enough to finish 14th in the Giro & 12th in the Tour, while working in the service of his team leaders.
If there was a gift it was from the other teams on stage 6 - letting Jubmo-Visma put 4 riders in a big break was never a good idea. While Ineos Grenadiers, Soudal-QuickStep and Movistar put on a chase, it was too little too late. Valter could drop back to help Rog & Vingegaard, gifting Kuss the rare oportunity to ride for the stage & gained what turned out to be a critical 3 minutes on the rest of the contenders.
"Valter could drop back to help Rog & Vingegaard"
Why did they need help if they were better riders than Kuss? Kuss got the win because he could ride for himself for the majority of the tour rather than being in his normal role of water carrier for others. And I am not saying he is an overall better rider, just in that 3 week period and freed of his normal duties he done good.
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Re: The Vuelta!
Postby Mububban » Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:33 am
I think it was a beautiful reward for a true team player, thanking him for all the work he's done to help others win their grand tour titles, while of course being good enough to deserve the chance in the first place. He gets a huge win for his palmarès, and now it'll be back to our regularly scheduled broadcast of him working hard to help Rog and Jonas win everything. That to me is excellent team management. It motivates the entire team to stay together and keep winning everything, because everyone feels valued.
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!
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Re: The Vuelta!
Postby davehirst » Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:10 pm
Cant hurt having the American audiences a bit more involved either.
Thats a big market.
Look at how Australia went cycling gung-ho after cadels win of tdf.
From so many angles it was a perfect result.
Thats a big market.
Look at how Australia went cycling gung-ho after cadels win of tdf.
From so many angles it was a perfect result.
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