'Wentworth' bike, Moonee Ponds

[kukamunga]

Hi. New to this forum. I have been collecting a number of old bikes off hard rubbish in my area over the past few months. Some beauties I have obtained (and since passed on) are:-

-1963 Claud Butler 'Super Courer'
-late 60's/early 70's Raleigh Grand Prix
-late 60's/early 70's Peugeot roadie
-Everton (Danish) ladies bike
-Dunlop D7 saddle

The Peugeot has since been converted into a single speed (sacre bleu! ) and can be seen here

Some recent acquisitions include:-

-Malvern Star 'Bushranger' 15spd MTB, alloy components, sealed -bearing hubs...
-Malvern Star 'Vogue' 12spd 'ladies' bike, Dynaloy tubing, alloy components, ~12kg, red/white (noice )
-'Sid Patterson' badged 5spd ladies bike (frame design as per 'Vogue') 18kg! ( )
-Repco Superlite 12spd, 4130 CrMo main tubes, Exage 'Motion'/'500'/'SportLX'/'Biopace' components
-Miyata '770' or '110' (?), 10spd, similar components to 'Superlite', Suzue rear hub
-Graecross 'Courtney' Japanese, 3spd Shimano hub, 22" x 1.75 tyres shopping bike, red (cute )

All bikes are mostly intact and in good order. I look forward to learning to use my new digital camera and being able to post pictures here and discuss further with y'all, and hopefully 'pass' bikes on to more avid collectors!

In the meantime, someone might be able to fill me in a bit on this Aus made bike I picked up last night:

-'Wentworth', "Built by R.Peters, Mt.Alexander Rd, Moonee Ponds", single speed, fixed wheel (or freewheel has rusted solid), 'Competition Stronglight' cranks (France), track bike (?)

Cheers, Tony

[stevendavid75]

Good stuff,
it sounds like you love giving bikes a new lease of life.
I cant say I have heard of your bike, certainly sounds interesting enough, someone here might be able to help, otherwise you might want to try the canberra bicycle museum, they have a website and a relatively extensive list of builders.manufacturers. good luck

[GaryF]

You've found some very interesting bikes but the Wentworth is probably the most interesting. I haven't heard of the brand and I look forward to seeing a photo.

[kukamunga]

In the 'Australian Frame Makers by State' section of CBM, found a 'Chenoweth, Henry - Mooney Ponds, 497 Mt Alexander Rd' and 'Biggs, Edwin - Ascot Vale, 384 Mt Alexander Rd' (just up the road), but no 'Wentworth - R.Jones'. The decals are handpainted, a bit scratched and rusty. Will have to wait for photos!

[kukamunga]

OK! It's only taken 10+ weeks. Here, finally, are a few (!) photos of the Wentworth











Five times Sun Tour winner in the 60's, Barry Waddell (Barry Waddell Cycles), feels that is more like the handywork of Rupe Hines rather than Rob Peters, both of whom he knew. He feels the logos and lug highlights were handpainted by Ken Dickie, and the tubing is probably Australian steel, built around the mid-late 50's.

Can anyone else add or confirm any details???

[Kid_Carbine]

Ya wanna make a quick $5 on that Wentworth, .. OK OK, make it $10 proffit to you & I'll take that old clunker off your hands. No need to thank me, I'm just that kinda bloke.

All right, it's a bloody good find & it's equiped with a freewheel but it's obviously a road frame that was intended to have gears. They're damn nice lugs too & I would not be at all surprised if Mr Bates had something to do with them.

What do you have in mind, ... restore to original, or rebuild?

[GaryF]

Love the Wentworth.

Very unique lugwork. The rear dropouts are set at an angle I've never seen before - very interesting.

I was interested to read Barry Waddell's comments but I'd stick with R. Peters as the builder. If both these guy's were well known builders of the 50's/60's era wouldn't it be dumb to put your name on a frame that was built by another builder? Why would you bother doing that?

If it was my bike I'd make it a long term project and convert it back to a geared bike. I'd try to source an old Campy Gran Sport derailleur and associated parts. Why Campy? I just can't help myself.

That's a lot easier to write than actually do. Campy rear derailleurs of the 50's changed slightly about 3 times, front derailleurs are thin on the ground and period correct gear levers are like hens teeth and very expensive. Rings to suit the stronglight cranks are sometimes available on ebay. Rear wheel - What is the rear spacing? You need 126mm.

Thanks for the photo's

[kukamunga]

I think Barry may have been suggesting that the lugs looked like Rupe Hines trademark handywork

[Kid_Carbine]

120mm spacing for 5 speed clusters, 126mm for 6 speed which wasn't in use in the 50's & 60's. & the Campagnolo stuff is still available & affordable [just] but steadily geting dearer all the time.
Hilary Stone in the UK still seems to have a few Campagnolo Gran Sport high flange hubs built up from new shells & pre loved axles & cones. [About $190 US + postage. Yes, he deals in $ US]

The PCD on the Stronglight crank is 2" [50.8mm] This was the single most common fitting in the era up untill the 60's so plenty of chainwheels are available both new & pre loved, even triples. There are plenty of derailleurs too if non Campagnolo is used, you need only tick the 'Worldwide' option when searching eBay but buy only from Australia, the UK or the US & even then, check that anything that clamps to a tube or has a thread is for English standard bikes. [unless of course you have a foreign machine]

Most stuff from Europe is French threaded & from the Continent, a lot is Italian threaded.

[winona_rider]

wow...the lugs and the decals are incredible!

[kukamunga]

As much as I love this frame, I have only held onto it this long to try and sate my curiosity to it's background. I intend to sell it, and most of my collection on to hopefully more avid bike collectors and restorers. My aim is to save these sorts of bikes from becoming scrap metal.

[stryker84]

Hey, Mt Alexander Rd, Moonee Ponds? This is pretty much just up the street from me... wonder if there's still anything there now...

[kukamunga]

....I'd stick with R. Peters as the builder. If both these guy's were well known builders of the 50's/60's era....

Have you heard of R.(Rob) Peters as a frame builder before? As I wrote in an earlier post:

In the 'Australian Frame Makers by State' section of CBM, found a 'Chenoweth, Henry - Mooney Ponds, 497 Mt Alexander Rd' and 'Biggs, Edwin - Ascot Vale, 384 Mt Alexander Rd' (just up the road), but no 'Wentworth - R.Jones'

I take it the Canberra Bicycle Museum might be a tad interested in this bike? I've got a few contacts to get in touch with in regards to finding out more about this bike, and I will hopefully follow up on them in the next few days.

[ukalipt]

kukamunga
that wentworth is just amazing. and some nooob threw it out?
i know nothing of what should/could/was on the bike.
but i do know of a few ebay places to go browser shopping.
:::::::::::::::::::
campy gran sport derailleur NOS - clamp size 28.6
casanova is the seller from belgium -
SH$(AT) loads of NOS and some used cycling through ebay.
never brought from casa
:::::::::::::::::::
hilary stone is here [always thought he was a girl - my bad -
excellent ebayer from personal experiences]
:::::::::::::::::::
and maybe try cyclartist as well
:::::::::::::::::::
it all hindges on knowing what you are looking for i guess

[Kid_Carbine]

Casanova is David Lo & he is quite reasonable to deal with, but Hilary Stone [only one 'L' in Hilary] is dreadfully slow geting stuff away, so patience is a virtue with him, but he does eventually get it done. Both of these people derive a good slice of their income from eBay, so they need to be honest traders or they will not stay in business for long, & both have been around for a while.
Hilary needs some prompting before he leaves any feedback & even then he left feedback for less than half of my purchases.

Cyclartist are good to deal with but a bit on the dear side. Still, it's a business selling stock that can not be replaced with a phone call to a manufacturer/supplier so they need to maximise the return on each sale.
They do also have some really rare stuff & some of it is new. Communications with them are good & service is speedy.

[oldtimer]

kukamunga,
Your Wentworth looks to be a well built and unique bike.
My 1959 SJH had similar Weinmann deluxe blue anodized brakes as original equipment. The SJH builders must have thought the brakes were as good as any available in Australia because they normally used quality components.
oldtimer

[kukamunga]

From Warren Meade, Bicycle Passion, Lakes Entrance, VIC, today:-

Bob Peters had a bike shop in Moonee Ponds from just after the war (1946?) to about 1975, when he closed the shop and retired. I think he bought the business from Fatty Lamb. (World class rider before the war)
Bob built many of his own frames, but like most of the small shops, I suspect that he had others build them for him when he was too busy.
Those head lugs were common in the 1960's. They are english, factory stamped out, not hand cut. I have at least one Bates with them, and several others, but cant recall what brands without having a look in my shed. I have one of Bob's own race bikes in my collection. He was a top bloke, and had a successful business, evidenced by his comfortable financial circumstances in retirement. Hope this helps, Warren

Thanks Warren, and all others with information. Keep it coming!

[kukamunga]

Picked up a very nice old 'Hillman' frame and fork last weekend. Looks like similar era, lugs, dropouts and BB to 'Wentworth'! Stay tooned.....

[kukamunga]

Wentworth for sale here

[GaryF]

Too small for me but best of luck - someone's going to get a really nice bike.

[stryker84]

Hmm, might be the right size... might be interested. We'll have to wait and see how my money sit'n goes! Also nice since I used to live just around the corner...

[kukamunga]

Sold for $142.50.....

[GaryF]

Someone got a bargain.

[kukamunga]

Well, well, well..... What have we here ?

[Kid_Carbine]

Hmmmm, looks familiar.

I have seen those Stronglight cranks go for more than the current price of $150 for the whole bike so it just might end up being an even bigger bargain than before.