Moron Motorists #3

Scott_C
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Scott_C » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:54 am

stevebni wrote:
kenwstr wrote:Please go back, read and understand the context.

Ken


??


Ken was looking for multi-lane roundabouts with a spiral lane pattern, not just English roundabouts in general.

This West Australian roundabout had a single spiral pattern lane, starting from the white triangle the lane closest to the roundabout precesses outwards to be the left lane at the far exit. (you will get a better view by dropping out of StreetView but the computer I am on has a vendetta against Google Maps so I can't get a Google Maps link).

This was repainted a couple of months ago to a standard lane arrangement.

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Mulger bill
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:57 pm

uart wrote:
stevebni wrote:You want English roundabouts? I'll give you English roundabouts...

Image


WTH, I could spend a whole afternoon lost in that one. It looks like it could have been modeled after a pinball machine or something!

Looks fine, it's a two way circular road with roundabouts at every conflict point, keep left of the islands and obey roundabout rules where needed. If unsure and worried, follow the outside clockwise lane till you get to your exit roundabout.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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stevebni
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby stevebni » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:43 pm

Scott_C wrote:
stevebni wrote:
kenwstr wrote:Please go back, read and understand the context.

Ken


??


Ken was looking for multi-lane roundabouts with a spiral lane pattern, not just English roundabouts in general.

This West Australian roundabout had a single spiral pattern lane, starting from the white triangle the lane closest to the roundabout precesses outwards to be the left lane at the far exit. (you will get a better view by dropping out of StreetView but the computer I am on has a vendetta against Google Maps so I can't get a Google Maps link).

This was repainted a couple of months ago to a standard lane arrangement.


Right, gotchya. I was just throwing in an interesting (possibly) side note.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby kenwstr » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:31 pm

Scott_C wrote:
stevebni wrote:
kenwstr wrote:Please go back, read and understand the context.

Ken


??


Ken was looking for multi-lane roundabouts with a spiral lane pattern, not just English roundabouts in general.

This West Australian roundabout had a single spiral pattern lane, starting from the white triangle the lane closest to the roundabout precesses outwards to be the left lane at the far exit. (you will get a better view by dropping out of StreetView but the computer I am on has a vendetta against Google Maps so I can't get a Google Maps link).

This was repainted a couple of months ago to a standard lane arrangement.


I went looking all over google maps for what I remembered from several years ago. While I did find some roundabouts where some exits followed the spiral system that I tried to describe, for the most part this is not consistently followed on all exits even on the same roundabout. I suppose the impression gained in a short visit is not necessarily accurate. However, where I did encounter this, it seemed to work better than roundabouts here. I can see examples on google maps where they allow the left lane to split, both exit and go straight through. I think that's a mistake really. There are other examples where the left lane is an off ramp only but the 2nd lane splits providing 2 exiting lanes That's not too bad I suppose as it allows excess traffic to exit from the 2nd lane yet preserves the pattern of that lane going straight through to become the next exit. I guess it allows some recovery for people mistakenly being in the wrong lane and allows designers to some scope to accommodate traffic volumes on different exits while still eliminating any need to change lanes. I guess traffic lane design is a complicated thing.

For some reason, I have always found design problems interesting, maybe it's a disease....

Ken

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Ross
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:51 pm

No bicycles involved in this MM incident (thank God or there would of been serious injury or death). A motorist for reasons known only to themselves cuts a corner and has a head-on collision with oncoming motorist stopped at Give Way sign. This happened not far from where I live.

https://www.facebook.com/DashCamOwnersA ... 213958710/

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skull
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby skull » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:01 am

Ross wrote:No bicycles involved in this MM incident (thank God or there would of been serious injury or death). A motorist for reasons known only to themselves cuts a corner and has a head-on collision with oncoming motorist stopped at Give Way sign. This happened not far from where I live.

https://www.facebook.com/DashCamOwnersA ... 213958710/


Yet bicycles are the problem

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g-boaf
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:38 pm

MGIF today, rushes past, then slams on the anchors and indicates left to go into a parking garage driveway... Couldn't the driver have waited about 10 seconds more - it's not like I was going slowly. :roll:

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby antigee » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:21 pm

kenwstr wrote:
I went looking all over google maps for what I remembered from several years ago. While I did find some roundabouts where some exits followed the spiral system that I tried to describe, for the most part this is not consistently followed on all exits even on the same roundabout. I suppose the impression gained in a short visit is not necessarily accurate. However, where I did encounter this, it seemed to work better than roundabouts here. I can see examples on google maps where they allow the left lane to split, both exit and go straight through. I think that's a mistake really. There are other examples where the left lane is an off ramp only but the 2nd lane splits providing 2 exiting lanes That's not too bad I suppose as it allows excess traffic to exit from the 2nd lane yet preserves the pattern of that lane going straight through to become the next exit. I guess it allows some recovery for people mistakenly being in the wrong lane and allows designers to some scope to accommodate traffic volumes on different exits while still eliminating any need to change lanes. I guess traffic lane design is a complicated thing.

For some reason, I have always found design problems interesting, maybe it's a disease....

Ken


up to 5 years ago lived in the UK and just went and looked at some roundabouts local to where I lived that I thought had spiralled lanes from entry to exit and either my memory is poor or they have reverted to standard no lane marking free for all - my guess would be that they have been sacrificed to the god of traffic flow - as part of the design drivers would have to line up in the correct single entry lane - removing the spiral gives a simple multiple entry followed by the usual random cutting across to an exit

here is one of the type think describing (Rotherham, Yorkshire) - unusually with a cycle underpass - as a cyclist I'm very happy at the relative lack of roundabouts in Melbourne - generally in the UK would plan route to avoid the worse ones - the French do a much safer version of roundabouts with entrances at acute angles to reduce vehicle speed and provide better sight lines to drivers - a good rule of thumb for UK is if a roundabout has signals (and many do) it is very dangerous for cyclists

Image

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:09 pm

antigee wrote:The French do a much safer version of roundabouts with entrances at acute angles to reduce vehicle speed and provide better sight lines to drivers - a good rule of thumb for UK is if a roundabout has signals (and many do) it is very dangerous for cyclists.
Elephant and Castle. :?

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby adam0bmx0 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:05 pm

trailgumby wrote:
antigee wrote:The French do a much safer version of roundabouts with entrances at acute angles to reduce vehicle speed and provide better sight lines to drivers - a good rule of thumb for UK is if a roundabout has signals (and many do) it is very dangerous for cyclists.
Elephant and Castle. :?


Ah, I lived there for 3 years, all changed now! Massive re-development.

Before;

Image

After (couldn't find a good real-life pic);

Image

I emigrated to Australia whilst it was in it's early re-development, so never got to experience this new wonder! :D

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Ross
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:40 pm

But bikes are the problem...especially those pesky share bikes :roll:

https://the-riotact.com/canberras-bigge ... ear/255535

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby AdelaidePeter » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:56 am

As I indicated to turn left off a major road (Cross Road, for those who know it https://www.google.com/maps/@-34.967352 ... 312!8i6656 ), a car driver decided to turn right into the same side street, cutting me off. Fortunately I anticipated it, so although I got within probably 2 metres - close enough that my yell of "Oi" would have been heard - I was already braking and never in any danger. Traffic was light in my direction so there was no urgency for them to turn quickly.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby kenwstr » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:52 pm

Today returning from a 50 km ride out of Bathurst NSW, I was cycling NE on Havannah St. Approaching a left bend located just before the intersection with the HWY, I indicated, changed to the right lane and positioned the bike on the right side of the right lane, still indicating right with the intention to turn right into a short lane from which I can easily access the shared path to take me across the bridge. As there was a car approaching the same bend from the opposite direction, I just slowed so I'd be in position to make my turn after the car passed. The car however crossed the centre line and almost got me....... I had to swerve, then stop in the middle of the road to take a few breaths before making that turn. How hard is it really to just drive on the correct side of the road..

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33.4188545,149.5910962,191m/data=!3m1!1e3

Ken

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ironhanglider » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:14 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:As I indicated to turn left off a major road (Cross Road, for those who know it https://www.google.com/maps/@-34.967352 ... 312!8i6656 ), a car driver decided to turn right into the same side street, cutting me off. Fortunately I anticipated it, so although I got within probably 2 metres - close enough that my yell of "Oi" would have been heard - I was already braking and never in any danger. Traffic was light in my direction so there was no urgency for them to turn quickly.


This is exactly the reason why I rarely indicate left. If the driver believed you were going straight on there is a chance that he would have waited. In the circumstance that he didn't, then at least you have both hands on the bars for full control of braking and steering.

The times I am most likely to indicate left is where a car is approaching from a side street that I intend to turn into and their waiting will not add to my safety and will only annoy them.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:18 pm

kenwstr wrote:The car however crossed the centre line and almost got me....... I had to swerve, then stop in the middle of the road to take a few breaths before making that turn. How hard is it really to just drive on the correct side of the road..

<snipped>

Ken

Wow! Glad you kept the rubber side down.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby AdelaidePeter » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:14 am

ironhanglider wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote:As I indicated to turn left off a major road (Cross Road, for those who know it https://www.google.com/maps/@-34.967352 ... 312!8i6656 ), a car driver decided to turn right into the same side street, cutting me off. Fortunately I anticipated it, so although I got within probably 2 metres - close enough that my yell of "Oi" would have been heard - I was already braking and never in any danger. Traffic was light in my direction so there was no urgency for them to turn quickly.


This is exactly the reason why I rarely indicate left. If the driver believed you were going straight on there is a chance that he would have waited. In the circumstance that he didn't, then at least you have both hands on the bars for full control of braking and steering.

The times I am most likely to indicate left is where a car is approaching from a side street that I intend to turn into and their waiting will not add to my safety and will only annoy them.


The other issue is this is on a cycle route and just after a pedestrian+cycle crossing, meaning there is often a cyclist behind me; and I think there was one behind me that day. IMHO it's good to indicate out of courtesy to them - and to make sure they don't undertake! I guess if there is no one behind me, and no one coming out of the side street, it may help to not indicate.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby AdelaidePeter » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:23 am

kenwstr wrote:Today returning from a 50 km ride out of Bathurst NSW, I was cycling NE on Havannah St. Approaching a left bend located just before the intersection with the HWY, I indicated, changed to the right lane and positioned the bike on the right side of the right lane, still indicating right with the intention to turn right into a short lane from which I can easily access the shared path to take me across the bridge. As there was a car approaching the same bend from the opposite direction, I just slowed so I'd be in position to make my turn after the car passed. The car however crossed the centre line and almost got me....... I had to swerve, then stop in the middle of the road to take a few breaths before making that turn. How hard is it really to just drive on the correct side of the road..

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33.4188545,149.5910962,191m/data=!3m1!1e3


It seems to be a common move. This is what I found when I checked out that corner on Google Street View.

If you live in the area, it might be a good idea to write to council about some extra median strip.

Image

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby uart » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:46 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:As I indicated to turn left off a major road (Cross Road, for those who know it https://www.google.com/maps/@-34.967352 ... 312!8i6656 ), a car driver decided to turn right into the same side street, cutting me off. Fortunately I anticipated it, so although I got within probably 2 metres - close enough that my yell of "Oi" would have been heard - I was already braking and never in any danger. Traffic was light in my direction so there was no urgency for them to turn quickly.


This is bullying pure and simple. The driver can see you. The driver knows that they are supposed to give way to you. However they also know that if push comes to shove that you will to give way to them. Unfortunately every cyclist experiences this at some time or other (and sometimes quite regularly). :(

Generally it happens where the motorists realizes (or at least hopes) that you will be able to take take evasive action in response to their failure to give way - and no collision will occur.

Really it's quite a similar type of bullying behavior to what another member was talking about in the safety and advocacy forum here. Almost Killed Again - Giving Way On Narrowed Street : viewtopic.php?f=53&t=98610

Az0r_au
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Az0r_au » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:42 pm

Just saw this on /r/cycling absolutely shocking footage.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/loca ... gh-1783655
2 years suspended license and 20£ fine is all the driver got. Ridiculous.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bychosis » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:43 am

Az0r_au wrote:Just saw this on /r/cycling absolutely shocking footage.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/loca ... gh-1783655
2 years suspended license and 20£ fine is all the driver got. Ridiculous.

The legal system is an ass. :(
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

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bychosis
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bychosis » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:34 pm

https://www.theherald.com.au/story/5531 ... 30/?cs=305

Disqualified driver caught driving several times. :sigh:
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby uart » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:08 pm

Az0r_au wrote:Just saw this on /r/cycling absolutely shocking footage.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/loca ... gh-1783655
2 years suspended license and 20£ fine is all the driver got. Ridiculous.


There really needs to be a special legal category for "controlled driving a motor vehicle into cyclist or pedestrians" that attracts a mandatory jail sentence. Grrrr :x

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby uart » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:27 pm

Has anyone seen this latest video from Sean.H. (I think he's posted other video's here before.) This one is an absolute shocker!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwzgLHUs1J0

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:38 pm

Cyclist failed to give way. Driver an ass
Image

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby uart » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:50 pm

jasonc wrote: Driver an ass

Yep, that much is indisputable.

Cyclist failed to give way.

TBH that part is debatable. The cyclist was pretty much committed to the turn before the motorist even entered the roadway.

Take a close look at the video from 0:18.
0:18 - The motorist is about to enter the roadway (looks like from a shopping centre car park).
0.19 - The cyclist has just started his turn and the motorist is not even fully on the roadway yet (rear wheels not cleared curb).
0:20 - The cyclist is fully committed to the turn and the motorist FIRST appears to have fully entered the roadway.
0:21 - The cyclist is entering the street and the motorist is already going off his nut at him.

Remember that a vehicle entering a roadway from private property has to give way to ALL road users already on the road they are entering.

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