Moron Motorists #3

[find_bruce]

I know the area & my take is that the path must have some serious shortcomings - why else would anyone in their right mind want to ride on the old pacific highway?

[Andy01]

warthog1 said it!

From my perspective JasonC said it.
Yes I agree don't wear dark colours.
However that doesn't absolve drivers from actually paying attention to what is on the road in front of them and for many reasons some "cycleways" are not the best places to ride.

Oh well, it has been enlightening posting it here too.

I read the Patrol guy's comment as a "Dumb Cyclist" type comment - same as we post "Moron Motorist" type comments. I didn't take it that he was not paying attention - he just seemed annoyed at the idiot on the bike. Maybe his comment would have been the same if the rider had been wearing hiviz with 2000 lumen front and rear lights though ?

I do think that while it may well make sense to ride the road rather than a dodgy path (if the path is dodgy), doing so under those conditions leaves the cyclist (and the rest of us) open to abuse for being stupid.

The same as "some" drivers and pedestrians tend to make cyclists complain about moron/dumb people, it is fair to expect reciprocation from them when fellow cyclists do dumb things like this.

I spent the weekend in Byron Bay and I saw literally hundreds of cyclists - only one (yes, just one) was wearing a helmet, most were wearing boardies, bikinis, thongs, barefoot etc. This was day and night, and the vast majority at night had no lights or even reflectors. A large proportion were riding those e-powered fat-tyred bikes that resemble Harleys that obviously have throttle control because there wasn't much pedaling happening. Most of the other bikes were Dutch-style cruisers and a few MTBs (many with surfboards racks fitted). Not too many road bikes.

So while I may seem to be describing total anarchy from a cycling POV, it was all fairly well behaved. I didn't actually see any cyclist doing anything specifically "dumb" or risky (other than no PPE, lights etc), and motorists seemed to be quite tolerant & well behaved around them. Perhaps it is because Byron Bay now charges $5/hour for parking EVERYWHERE (7 days a week until 6pm) so parking cars would get costly for locals.

The whole thing seemed far more laid back and tolerant than anything I have seen in Brisbane - in spite of literally EVERY cyclist breaking almost every rule in the book.

[Andy01]

Without knowing the road or path in question, or any context (for the quote), I think I might be asking myself (as a vehicle driver) the same question (and I don't drive a Patrol, or have any desire to drive one).

Why would a cyclist ride in poor visibility conditions in dark clothes in the road instead of using a separate path ? Seems like a candidate for a Darwin award. Perhaps this should be in the Dumb Cyclists thread ?

Perhaps I am missing something ?

I can help here, I was wondering the same thing so did some research on the path in question.

When the promo photos (presumably of a wide, well built section) looked like this I started to get suspicious.



And indeed found some Youtube footage of someone riding the whole distance on it.



And the short answer is it looks narrow, meandering, poorly maintained and in many sections a bit rubbish. Not sure it'd be great on a road bike with 25mm tyres.

Fair enough but how many motorists will know a good path from a bad path ? The driver just sees a cyclist dressed like a ninja riding in dark conditions on a road a few metres away from what appears to be a perfectly good bike path. He/she doesn't know if the path is suitable for a rider trying to average 40km/h on skinny 25mm over-inflated rock hard tyres.

[warthog1]

warthog1 said it!

From my perspective JasonC said it.
Yes I agree don't wear dark colours.
However that doesn't absolve drivers from actually paying attention to what is on the road in front of them and for many reasons some "cycleways" are not the best places to ride.

Oh well, it has been enlightening posting it here too.

I read the Patrol guy's comment as a "Dumb Cyclist" type comment - same as we post "Moron Motorist" type comments. I didn't take it that he was not paying attention - he just seemed annoyed at the idiot on the bike. Maybe his comment would have been the same if the rider had been wearing hiviz with 2000 lumen front and rear lights though ?

I do think that while it may well make sense to ride the road rather than a dodgy path (if the path is dodgy), doing so under those conditions leaves the cyclist (and the rest of us) open to abuse for being stupid.

The same as "some" drivers and pedestrians tend to make cyclists complain about moron/dumb people, it is fair to expect reciprocation from them when fellow cyclists do dumb things like this.

I spent the weekend in Byron Bay and I saw literally hundreds of cyclists - only one (yes, just one) was wearing a helmet, most were wearing boardies, bikinis, thongs, barefoot etc. This was day and night, and the vast majority at night had no lights or even reflectors. A large proportion were riding those e-powered fat-tyred bikes that resemble Harleys that obviously have throttle control because there wasn't much pedaling happening. Most of the other bikes were Dutch-style cruisers and a few MTBs (many with surfboards racks fitted). Not too many road bikes.

So while I may seem to be describing total anarchy from a cycling POV, it was all fairly well behaved. I didn't actually see any cyclist doing anything specifically "dumb" or risky (other than no PPE, lights etc), and motorists seemed to be quite tolerant & well behaved around them. Perhaps it is because Byron Bay now charges $5/hour for parking EVERYWHERE (7 days a week until 6pm) so parking cars would get costly for locals.

The whole thing seemed far more laid back and tolerant than anything I have seen in Brisbane - in spite of literally EVERY cyclist breaking almost every rule in the book.

I am on that forum as I have a patrol.
I read it as "ger off the road" and use the bike path provided.
Not the universal opinion on there but very common

The expense of the bike path was mentioned (without mentioning how much road infrastructure costs) and the strong inference was "what a waste of money, they wont even use it."

[elantra]

I can help here, I was wondering the same thing so did some research on the path in question.

When the promo photos (presumably of a wide, well built section) looked like this I started to get suspicious.



And indeed found some Youtube footage of someone riding the whole distance on it.



And the short answer is it looks narrow, meandering, poorly maintained and in many sections a bit rubbish. Not sure it'd be great on a road bike with 25mm tyres.

Thankyou for your remarkable detective work, and besides the video has a nice soundtrack, for a while anyway.

I reckon that the “cycleway” looks pretty dodgy, looks like its a nice resource for pedestrians, dogs, and ambling along with the wife or kids, but not suitable for covering some distance at 30 km/hr.

Intolerance is rife in the community, and unfortunately social media is very good at promoting intolerance.
I doubt that Mr Patrol Forumite was significantly inconvenienced by the bicycle rider in question.
As others have said, this is the “Old Pacific HWY” which has been bypassed by a trillion dollar motorway less than a decade ago.
I seriously doubt that the Old Pac HWY between Mack’s and Nambucca is EVER congested- In the way that SE Qld or Central Coast NSW usually is.

It’s also possible that the cyclist in question is NOT a local and has no knowledge that there is an alternative - fit for purpose or otherwise !
I too am a believer in wearing bright clothes.
But it’s possible that the cyclist was using lights.
In recent years, MOST of the Roadies in my area (Tweed Valley and NSW/Qld borders) use really bright lighting - even on sunny mornings.

Just to digress, that bridge at Macksville is legendary. I have been over it quite a few times in motor vehicles.
It was scary narrow - Truck drivers reckoned they had to breathe in and trim their mirrors to pass one another.
On the day before the Bypass was opened 2 semis came to a grinding halt on the bridge and were completely interlocked and took a few hours to separate.
Fortunately with no physical injuries and only minor damage to the bridge.
The old bridge is legendary.

[jasonc]

[find_bruce]

I doubt that Mr Patrol Forumite was significantly inconvenienced by the bicycle rider in question.
As others have said, this is the “Old Pacific HWY” which has been bypassed by a trillion dollar motorway less than a decade ago.
I seriously doubt that the Old Pac HWY between Mack’s and Nambucca is EVER congested- In the way that SE Qld or Central Coast NSW usually is.

In these situations I like to respond along the lines of "the government has spent billions of dollars building a motorway why aren't you using it?"

[Mr Purple]

Filmed the Brookfield Three Fingers for Fulgaz this morning.

It reminded me of why I hate riding the three fingers:



Some of the most arrogant, careless and aggressive driving in Brisbane. At least five close passes and these incidents above (the first car towing a trailer at full tilt down a narrow road was bad enough, but hang on until the end).

Also abused by a lady who turned across me from head on. Unfortunately only had the rear camera on at the time, and didn't manage to catch her plate. No idea why she thought it was my fault for riding the opposite direction in broad daylight.

[redsonic]

Apologies for the lighting, but you get the idea

[Retrobyte]

Filmed the Brookfield Three Fingers for Fulgaz this morning.

It reminded me of why I hate riding the three fingers:



Some of the most arrogant, careless and aggressive driving in Brisbane. At least five close passes and these incidents above (the first car towing a trailer at full tilt down a narrow road was bad enough, but hang on until the end).

Also abused by a lady who turned across me from head on. Unfortunately only had the rear camera on at the time, and didn't manage to catch her plate. No idea why she thought it was my fault for riding the opposite direction in broad daylight.

I don't know the road at all but it definitely doesn't look cyclist-friendly. Given how narrow it is I'd imagine it would be almost impossible to avoid a close pass - only looks one and a bit lanes wide?

[Mr Purple]

I don't know the road at all but it definitely doesn't look cyclist-friendly. Given how narrow it is I'd imagine it would be almost impossible to avoid a close pass - only looks one and a bit lanes wide?

It's the top of Brookfield Road. The road ends about 500m past this point.

There were cyclists everywhere this morning and a group had just come the other way. You think motorists would have some consideration and not come flying down the road or out of driveways at a million miles an hour, but no.

The guy with the trailer was absolutely flying, the guy in the Polestar didn't even look or hesitate when he pulled out of his driveway. Arrogance in the extreme.

[g-boaf]

CX-9 pulls out in front of me on a 45km/h downhill section. I was covering the brakes but he fortunately put the foot down and got moving.

He should have waited.

[jasonc]

speaking of should have waited...

there was no one behind me....

[Mr Purple]

So I thought running a rear camera would be helpful and it is.

Unfortunately on six separate occasions on the weekend I was almost hit by a car coming at me from the front. Five of these times were cars overtaking other cyclists over double white lines and the sixth was doing a right turn across me.

Unbelievable. If they can't see or give way while coming straight at you, when can they? I suspect a lot of motorists are fixated on the 'but I can overtake cyclists over double white lines' thing and forget they also have to give way to traffic coming the other direction. They might need that road rule taken off them.

[Cyclophiliac]

So I thought running a rear camera would be helpful and it is.

Unfortunately on six separate occasions on the weekend I was almost hit by a car coming at me from the front. Five of these times were cars overtaking other cyclists over double white lines and the sixth was doing a right turn across me.

Unbelievable. If they can't see or give way while coming straight at you, when can they? I suspect a lot of motorists are fixated on the 'but I can overtake cyclists over double white lines' thing and forget they also have to give way to traffic coming the other direction. They might need that road rule taken off them.

It also doesn't help much when motorists overtake so they can turn left in front of you. I had a motorist do that to me once, in heavy rain, just so she could turn into her driveway. Because of the rain, I just barely managed to brake in time to avoid hitting the left of her car. Naturally, her attitude was completely unapologetic and contemptuous.

[Mr Purple]

It also doesn't help much when motorists overtake so they can turn left in front of you. I had a motorist do that to me once, in heavy rain, just so she could turn into her driveway. Because of the rain, I just barely managed to brake in time to avoid hitting the left of her car. Naturally, her attitude was completely unapologetic and contemptuous.

Another law that needs to be re-evaluated.

Yes, cyclists have to give way to cars turning left. But it's by no means acceptable that motorists think they can just squeeze pass you, immediately turn left and you have to give way to them.

If the shoulder/bike lane is a legal lane for us to ride in, then realistically it needs to be treated legally as the left hand lane on a multi-lane road. Try turning left across another car in the lane to your left and see exactly how that turns out for you.

It leads to confusion like in that corner of Sylvan Road and Land Street in Brisbane where the left hand turning lane is a bicycle lane. And for some reason motorists (and some cyclists, I've noted) think that if the car is indicating left they're perfectly justified cutting into the bike lane (which is also turning left) and you have to give way to them. Bizarre stuff.

[Cyclophiliac]

It also doesn't help much when motorists overtake so they can turn left in front of you. I had a motorist do that to me once, in heavy rain, just so she could turn into her driveway. Because of the rain, I just barely managed to brake in time to avoid hitting the left of her car. Naturally, her attitude was completely unapologetic and contemptuous.

Another law that needs to be re-evaluated.

Yes, cyclists have to give way to cars turning left. But it's by no means acceptable that motorists think they can just squeeze pass you, immediately turn left and you have to give way to them.

If the shoulder/bike lane is a legal lane for us to ride in, then realistically it needs to be treated legally as the left hand lane on a multi-lane road. Try turning left across another car in the lane to your left and see exactly how that turns out for you.

It leads to confusion like in that corner of Sylvan Road and Land Street in Brisbane where the left hand turning lane is a bicycle lane. And for some reason motorists (and some cyclists, I've noted) think that if the car is indicating left they're perfectly justified cutting into the bike lane (which is also turning left) and you have to give way to them. Bizarre stuff.

There's already an existing road rule (at least in Victoria) prohibiting merging into an occupied lane, and that's exactly the rule this stupid motorist ignored (yes, it includes all lane types). By cutting across me at such close range, she was definitely infringing that rule (or at least, any reasonable person would come to that conclusion).

[Mr Purple]

There's already an existing road rule (at least in Victoria) prohibiting merging into an occupied lane, and that's exactly the rule this stupid motorist ignored (yes, it includes all lane types). By cutting across me at such close range, she was definitely infringing that rule (or at least, any reasonable person would come to that conclusion).

Your problem is assuming 'reasonable person'.

Interestingly I found this on a different forum while researching the law in Queensland. Funnily enough it's about a hundred metres from the intersection I was describing above.

https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2688912

We have a problem when motorists are debating whether they can legally turn across a cycle lane depending or not whether there's a little sign with a picture of a bike designating said cycle lane.

[Retrobyte]

I was in the box seat this afternoon to see this moron ....

[duncanm]

The self-awareness is not high with most motorists..
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-20/ ... /103587886

Sydney councils and drivers say tolled motorways causing rat-running and damage in neighbourhood roads
LJ Loch and her husband cannot get out of their street in the morning — in fact, they sometimes find it hard to make it out of their garage.

They live in the inner west Sydney suburb of Rozelle, on a small residential street which used to be quiet.
...
The traffic standstill makes it inefficient to get to her workplace in Redfern via her usual commute on Victoria Road.

Instead she has resorted to going the back way through local streets in Annandale and Newtown.


So we have someone bitching about traffic in their street, who travels less than 7km to work by car between two suburbs well serviced by public transport(*) and uses back streets.



(*) - 8am Mon-Fri bus trip is 35min, according to google.

[duncanm]

Yes, cyclists have to give way to cars turning left.

This is not true.

Cyclists must not overtake to the left of a car turning and indicating left.

There's a difference.

[Anrai]

(*) - 8am Mon-Fri bus trip is 35min, according to google.

I'm not familiar with Sydney but in Hobart you'd add anywhere up to 20 minutes for your bus being late (while the bus scheduled before was on time.)
Then if it's a rush hour bus you're possibly dealing with the question of whether there's room on the bus if you're getting on a decent way into the route. Last time I tried to catch an outbound bus right before 3pm I saw people already standing right up near the driver and decided I was still better off walking home.

[Mr Purple]

Yes, cyclists have to give way to cars turning left.

This is not true.

Cyclists must not overtake to the left of a car turning and indicating left.

There's a difference.

What is the practical difference? I'm genuinely curious because I always figured 'overtaking' was the same as 'riding past'!

[duncanm]

Yes, cyclists have to give way to cars turning left.

This is not true.

Cyclists must not overtake to the left of a car turning and indicating left.

There's a difference.

What is the practical difference? I'm genuinely curious because I always figured 'overtaking' was the same as 'riding past'!

I would say those two are essentially the same - but you said 'have to give way to', not 'riding past'.

A left-hook means a car is not 'overtaking safely', and has (imho) violated the following:
144 Keeping a safe distance when overtaking
A driver overtaking a vehicle—
(a) must pass the vehicle at a sufficient distance to avoid a collision with the vehicle or obstructing the path of the vehicle, and
(b) must not return to the marked lane or line of traffic where the vehicle is travelling until the driver is a sufficient distance past the vehicle to avoid a collision with the vehicle or obstructing the path of the vehicle.

[duncanm]

(*) - 8am Mon-Fri bus trip is 35min, according to google.

I'm not familiar with Sydney but in Hobart you'd add anywhere up to 20 minutes for your bus being late (while the bus scheduled before was on time.)
Then if it's a rush hour bus you're possibly dealing with the question of whether there's room on the bus if you're getting on a decent way into the route. Last time I tried to catch an outbound bus right before 3pm I saw people already standing right up near the driver and decided I was still better off walking home.

true in many places further out from the CBD, but both Rozelle and Redfern are serviced by high frequency services.. so missed connections aren't an issue.

eg: If the entitled resident were to walk to Victoria Rd, they have more than 5 bus options in the first 20 minutes from 8am.