1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
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1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby old steel Bikes » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:42 pm
Breakup of the parts
Cranks.................................Chater Lea 50 46 rings
Pedals.................................Chater Lea
Toe Clips..............................GB
Toe Straps...........................What I believe are NOS brooks fist model with the terrible buckles
Cluster................................5 Speed 3/32 by 14,16,18,20,22
Hobs...................................Harden 32 40
Rims...................................Fiamme tubular
Seat...................................Brooks B17 Narrow
Seat Post............................ REYNOLDS Alloy full dome
Gears................................. Huret rod front changer and Huret twin cable rear changer to suit the frame
Stem..................................GB
Bars...................................MAES with cork plugs form bottles of red wine I drank in Italy
Water Bottle.......................Twin alloy handle mounted
Brakes................................GB super hood levers and 1948? GB Hiduminium side pull brake callipers not installed at the moment has GB Mark 3s on it
Reason: Pics added
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Re: 1951 Les Ephrave restoration
Postby HappyHumber » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:55 pm
your pics need to be seen again!
EDIT: My link corrections removed. Thanks to MulgerBill for updating the original post.
Lookin' pretty schmick. Very nice.
Hit me up via the BNA dm; I'll get an alert. If y'know, you know.
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby hiflange » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:47 am
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby old steel Bikes » Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:53 am
There is a whole article on spacer that can be found at www.classiclightweights.co.uk
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:49 am
thanks for posting.
The bike is from my favourite period.
And it looks like it is in excellent hands.
any chance of a closeup photo of the engraving on your chainring adapter?
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby Typhoon Ken » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:49 pm
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby old steel Bikes » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:34 pm
Adaptor Separator thickness
Inner step down where the 2 chain rings are secured 3 of position with 3 bolts the third screws into the back of the crank
Engraving a bit hard to see CHATER LEA MADE IN ENGLAND
3/32 chain on chain shows clearance
3/16 single chain ring and block chain heavy gear note the bolts are wrong they are too long
Again 3/16 chin on the back sprocket
Let me know if you want any further information
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby HappyHumber » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:01 pm
Hit me up via the BNA dm; I'll get an alert. If y'know, you know.
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1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:27 pm
Regarding your 5 speed freewheel. Wouldn't a 4 speed be more appropriate?
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby old steel Bikes » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:03 pm
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby silverlight » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:27 pm
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby WyvernRH » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:40 pm
Yes and No Four speed blocks were common (possibly the 'norm' at that point tho 3-speed blocks were still widely in use) in the UK in 1951 but 5-speed blocks were being used by 'cutting edge' types like British League of Racing Cyclists and had been since WWII ended. I believe French tourist types had been using 5-speeds pre-war but I can't find my sources for that at the moment so YMMV.singlespeedscott wrote:Regarding your 5 speed freewheel. Wouldn't a 4 speed be more appropriate?
If the original owner could afford an Ephgrave he could have had a 5-speed. It depends on the rear dropout width of the bike really.
Richard
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby old steel Bikes » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:44 pm
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby Tinker » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:27 pm
I always wondered how the other half lived
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:56 pm
and there are some notes on it here
the 1950 Holdsworth Aids has the Huret Competition Special (with Chain tension lever)
the 1952 Aids has the Tour de France ensemble with the twin lever operating the front changer
The 1954 Aids has "Bobet Model. The most up-to-date controlled tensioned gear."
The Dancing Chain p160 suggests it was released in 1953, and that it was a "deluxe version of the Competition" and on p161 it again is described as 1953. However the brochure clearly indicates that the Bobet had special parts and the other parts were identical to the Tour de France model.
Velobase is vague; here and here
I am puzzled by the twin chain stay braze-ons, unless the frame was updated later, or the Bobet Special came out earlier, or the frame was later.
Have you thought about joining the VCC and accessing the Ephgrave Marque enthusiast?
and this from 1956 suggests that the Bobet Special was for 3,4 or 5 speed; it gives a capacity range but, as it is in French and German, I am guessing capacity of 8 teeth on the chainrings and able to shift a freewheel ????? teeth. (Aids 1952; p12 has the TDF model, on which the Bobet Special is based, as being able to accommodate a gear span of 24 teeth!!"
French and/or German readers please correct this. BUT The Dancing Chain, p161 had the earlier released Competition as capacity of "8 on the freewheel and 14 teeth on the chainwheels." 14 teeth capacity between the two chainrings: that seems doubtful in the early 1950s.
the 1950 Aids has freewheels up to 5 speed available.
was this the frame you bought?
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:06 pm
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:50 pm
this photo suggests otherwise.singlespeedscott wrote:I dare say it would have been after his '53 Tour de France win or his '54 world championship win.
from the reports of 1953
and the RD and another and the twin shift levers
these are from the excellent resource Cycling Passions
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:44 am
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:51 pm
There is plenty of accompanying text that I will have to work through trying to see any reference to "Huret" and "derailleur". If there is any, I will call upon a French speaker (son's girlfriend) to provide some assistance.
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby hiflange » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:08 pm
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby old steel Bikes » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:48 pm
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby WyvernRH » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:30 pm
I'll have ago at the answer, but this is not gospel, just my interpretation OK?RobertFrith wrote:Thanks for the pics of the adapters. I'm still curious about them; what do they offer that three spacers a la Specialities TA don't? Seems like a fair bit of extra metal. I have a pommy frame tucked away, 1949. It came with Chater Lea cranks and I'm dreaming about a CL double up front
The CL fixture is the engineers answer to the problem. It's alloy (I assume, I've never handled one) so extra weight pah! This fitting will exactly align the two rings with no chance of misalignment. The spacers rely on the indents in the chainrings to do this and if badly fitted will still allow the chainrings to sit 'out of round' Believe me, I have fixed up far too many badly assembled 'bike boom' Peugeot chainsets...
However,the CL solution is much more expensive too make and with a modicum of care on the assembly line not really necessary. However also remember at this point in time the UK industry was to some extent stuck with the machine tools (and design thought to some extent) from pre-war so modifying the chainrings to have indents was probably considered harder than making up a small investment casting to do the job?
Lots weirder design decisions have been made....
Richard
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Re: 1951 Les Ephgrave restoration
Postby Clydesdale Scot » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:51 pm
after 1934 the adapters were in alloy Source
The purpose was set out in 1929 " to replace the existing riveted double-chainwheels with two standard chainrings enabling riders to "dissemble and fit alternative chainwheels expeditiously". Source
In the 1932 catalogue they explained that the adapter "insures an absolutely concentric and rigid chain wheel assembly, and correct chain line" and " the adapter "can be used with any of the standard chain wheels listed on p6" Source p14
Both were referring to tandem bikes, front derailleurs were only just beginning to be developed (Dancing Chain p126-27)
Of the 11 bikes listed in Hugo's database of Classic Lightweight bikes, only one has dual Chater Lea chainrings installed, a 1951 Thanet
The 1952 Brown Brothers catalogue (p55) had listed the ' "Chater Lea" Duralumin Adapters for tandem chain wheels'
From the Classic Lightweight page, it seems that the CL adapter for 'solo-cycle[s]' was introduced in 1953.
I think I have the pre1953 model 1307-2 with bolts, and an early (c1947) Simplex rod derailleur, but they will probably remain in my 'seemed like a good idea at the time' box.
Danny, make sure you proudly point to the chainrings and adapters, as they seem to be very rare.
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