Paino Softride
- QuangVuong
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Paino Softride
Postby QuangVuong » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:33 pm
This is my first Frank Paino frame, and if all things, it's got an Allsop Softride beam attached to it too. I've never really been a fan of Softrides, particularly how ugly they look, but this one was cheap enough to have a try.
Story is, this was ordered at Frank's shop in Miranda around 1992/1993. Built with a 8s 6400 group with STI levers with a mid 92 date code. The original owner was 5'10", basically my current height, so the frame should be about right for me too. He rode it around the Eastern Suburbs for about 10 years before getting a recumbent. And up until my ownership about a month ago, it sat in his son's shed. From what I can see it looks like it was parked vertically with the wheels on the wall, and the right side of the frame was facing the sun. There was a lot of dust particularly on the levers and HT, and the right side is quite faded compared to the left. But with all the dirt and grease left on it over the 20 something years, the frame is left in amazing condition. At least after the big clean up.
This is what it looks like currently. Neon cleaned up really nicely. Paint that was under dirt or under a bottle cage is nice and not discoloured.
Paino HT sticker is cracking, but mostly on there.
Lugless HT/TT joint. Nicely fillet brazed. I believe a BCM lug at the bottom. The phone number for the Miranda Bicycle Centre is still 7 digits.
Paino DT logos are pretty good. Some small cracking, but it's expected for something so old and not clear coated. This frame is made from Reynolds 653. A normal 54cm 653 frame is about 1.7kg for the frame. This one is a whopping 2730g frame with a 715g fork. I'm not sure on how heavy the beam is, as I could work out how to remove it.
Fillet brazing for the ST and TT joint. There about 3mm of clearance between that brake bridge stub and a 20mm tyre, so I'm quite limited on tyre choice.
Reynolds vertical drop outs, and fork tips.
This is probably the worst damage to the frame. The chain has rubbed away a bit of the seat stay.
Everest BB shell.
Front end of the beam.
Beam specs. Takes a rider weight of 180lb for all terrain use it 200lb for road use. I'm well below the limit, so it should be fine.
Here's the only numeric marking on the frame. A 4 is stamped into the steerer. It probably doesn't have much meaning. I haven't seen too many Paino's around, but the ones I have seen usually use a unique fork crown. And a lot have over the BB cable routing. What were the identifiers of Paino's work, other than the P pantograph?
EDIT: Found a matching number 4 on the BB shell. Only spotted in the good light today.
Story is, this was ordered at Frank's shop in Miranda around 1992/1993. Built with a 8s 6400 group with STI levers with a mid 92 date code. The original owner was 5'10", basically my current height, so the frame should be about right for me too. He rode it around the Eastern Suburbs for about 10 years before getting a recumbent. And up until my ownership about a month ago, it sat in his son's shed. From what I can see it looks like it was parked vertically with the wheels on the wall, and the right side of the frame was facing the sun. There was a lot of dust particularly on the levers and HT, and the right side is quite faded compared to the left. But with all the dirt and grease left on it over the 20 something years, the frame is left in amazing condition. At least after the big clean up.
This is what it looks like currently. Neon cleaned up really nicely. Paint that was under dirt or under a bottle cage is nice and not discoloured.
Paino HT sticker is cracking, but mostly on there.
Lugless HT/TT joint. Nicely fillet brazed. I believe a BCM lug at the bottom. The phone number for the Miranda Bicycle Centre is still 7 digits.
Paino DT logos are pretty good. Some small cracking, but it's expected for something so old and not clear coated. This frame is made from Reynolds 653. A normal 54cm 653 frame is about 1.7kg for the frame. This one is a whopping 2730g frame with a 715g fork. I'm not sure on how heavy the beam is, as I could work out how to remove it.
Fillet brazing for the ST and TT joint. There about 3mm of clearance between that brake bridge stub and a 20mm tyre, so I'm quite limited on tyre choice.
Reynolds vertical drop outs, and fork tips.
This is probably the worst damage to the frame. The chain has rubbed away a bit of the seat stay.
Everest BB shell.
Front end of the beam.
Beam specs. Takes a rider weight of 180lb for all terrain use it 200lb for road use. I'm well below the limit, so it should be fine.
Here's the only numeric marking on the frame. A 4 is stamped into the steerer. It probably doesn't have much meaning. I haven't seen too many Paino's around, but the ones I have seen usually use a unique fork crown. And a lot have over the BB cable routing. What were the identifiers of Paino's work, other than the P pantograph?
EDIT: Found a matching number 4 on the BB shell. Only spotted in the good light today.
Last edited by QuangVuong on Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
VillaVelo, by the Vuong brothers
Blog: https://villaveloframes.wordpress.com/
FB & IG: @villaveloframes
Blog: https://villaveloframes.wordpress.com/
FB & IG: @villaveloframes
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- Posts: 1711
- Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:28 pm
Re: Paino Softride
Postby thecaptn » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:45 am
Is that a rubber plug on the front of the beam? Would you flip that off to expose a bolt going into the top tube?
I'm really looking forward to learning about how it rides and what your impressions are. I've always wondered what one of these rode like because they look like they'd catapult you over the bars.
No surprises that the guy who had this built then went on to buy a recumbent
I'm really looking forward to learning about how it rides and what your impressions are. I've always wondered what one of these rode like because they look like they'd catapult you over the bars.
No surprises that the guy who had this built then went on to buy a recumbent
- find_bruce
- Moderator
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- Location: Sydney
Re: Paino Softride
Postby find_bruce » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:14 am
Nice guess thecaptn but no - the front is a pviot pin & the rear is the height adjustment
Remove the height adjustment bolt and drive out the front pin, from riders left, as per the manual
Remove the height adjustment bolt and drive out the front pin, from riders left, as per the manual
- grantw
- Posts: 1792
- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:22 am
- Location: Wollongong
Re: Paino Softride
Postby grantw » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:39 am
Fascinating bike Quang. My Paino is panto'd to bits and there's a serial number stamp on the bottom bracket. Sound like you've got good provenance though
I'm wondering how he bent the top tube?
I'm wondering how he bent the top tube?
- WyvernRH
- Posts: 3179
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:41 pm
- Location: Newcastle NSW
Re: Paino Softride
Postby WyvernRH » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:31 am
Internal bending spring or packed sand and a lot of grunt is my best guess.grantw wrote:I'm wondering how he bent the top tube?
Not all Paino's were panto'ed, depended on how much money you wanted to shell out. Of the three in my collection only one has panto's.
First Paino I've seen with Reynolds stickers tho.
i have a Jones Softride that I think was originally meant for triathlons with 650 wheels (now has 26"). Not my favorite ride but OK. The bar/stem setup has changed several times since the picture but I've never got the cockpit setup quite right. An email conversation with the manufacturers in the USA led to me buying a service kit for the pivot as they are liable to wear apparently. Haven't had to install it yet (lack of use possibly....)
Oh yes, IIRRC at 90-odd kilos I think I was at the top end of the beams published capability.
Richard
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Re: Paino Softride
Postby big booty » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:29 pm
Wow, now that's a bike only a mother could love.
- grantw
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- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:22 am
- Location: Wollongong
Re: Paino Softride
Postby grantw » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:10 am
I was thinking a bending mandrel - but it would have needed to be pretty big.WyvernRH wrote:Internal bending spring or packed sand and a lot of grunt is my best guess.grantw wrote:I'm wondering how he bent the top tube?
First Paino I've seen with Reynolds stickers tho.
Richard
The Reynolds sticker also interested me, All of the painos I've seen have used columbus.
- QuangVuong
- Posts: 1794
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:04 pm
- Location: Villawood, Sydney
Paino Softride
Postby QuangVuong » Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:52 pm
And done. Rebuilt with a mix of the original and my own 6400 bits. I chose the best condition bits to be on this bike. All up, it weighs in at 11.2kg as pictured, easily the heaviest bike I own.
Stuck with the dirty old tyres for now. A 23c barely fits in the rear, so have a I get some tyres. Most likely the Michelin Dynamic Classic in 20c.
Thanks to metalrideroz, I got some retro neon fade tape. He even chucked in a matching purple Profile bottle cage. Good thing too, as one of the original cages was cracked.
Replaced the Modolo stem with a polished Nitto. And replaced the XTR headset with a HP-6500.
The old Gel Turbo saddle was changed over to a Max Flite which I also had around.
Gold chain, which I think I've moved to the third bike now. I've sold the bikes it was on. Hopefully this one stays.
11-30t cassette as it came on the bike. It'll help carry the extra weight of the frame up hills.
Only the pedals are not 6400, as I am out of them. 1050 pedals work all the same, but it would be nice to get another set of 6400 triangular pedals, at minimum cost.
What is the serial sequence on Paino frames? And did he build with Columbus exclusively?
Stuck with the dirty old tyres for now. A 23c barely fits in the rear, so have a I get some tyres. Most likely the Michelin Dynamic Classic in 20c.
Thanks to metalrideroz, I got some retro neon fade tape. He even chucked in a matching purple Profile bottle cage. Good thing too, as one of the original cages was cracked.
Replaced the Modolo stem with a polished Nitto. And replaced the XTR headset with a HP-6500.
The old Gel Turbo saddle was changed over to a Max Flite which I also had around.
Gold chain, which I think I've moved to the third bike now. I've sold the bikes it was on. Hopefully this one stays.
11-30t cassette as it came on the bike. It'll help carry the extra weight of the frame up hills.
Only the pedals are not 6400, as I am out of them. 1050 pedals work all the same, but it would be nice to get another set of 6400 triangular pedals, at minimum cost.
What is the serial sequence on Paino frames? And did he build with Columbus exclusively?
VillaVelo, by the Vuong brothers
Blog: https://villaveloframes.wordpress.com/
FB & IG: @villaveloframes
Blog: https://villaveloframes.wordpress.com/
FB & IG: @villaveloframes
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- Posts: 1711
- Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:28 pm
- QuangVuong
- Posts: 1794
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:04 pm
- Location: Villawood, Sydney
Re: Paino Softride
Postby QuangVuong » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:21 pm
They certainly don't call them Softrides for no reason. Basically when I hopped on, the beam sagged under my weight. This meant I needed to set the beam at the a certain height to compensate for the sag. It feels about right in the current position, but I'd need a few more rides to dial it in, as well as the saddle angle and position.
With the beam, it feels as if I was floating there on the saddle. An odd feeling at first, but the beam felt solid enough that it shouldn't break out of no where. So when going over bumpy roads, or off road(rocky clay), it is a very smooth feeling, at least that's where I'm sitting. For the really harsh and bumpy roads that's are full of cracks and holes, my arms and legs definitely feel the vibration, but my body doesn't. It is very similar to using your legs as suspension whilst slightly out of saddle, but the beam is doing the job for you.
This however, may begin a bad habit. When going over bumps and hard edges(driveways, etc) normally I would ease off my weight, and I know how hard I'm hitting the bump. With the Softride, I would barely be able to tell how I went over a bump. So I could have smashed the rim into the edge, and I probably wouldn't have felt it.
I'm not too sure if I'm bouncing whilst pedaling since it was only a short test ride today. Will have to give it another bunch of rides before I know.
Also, Geoff Scott has informed me that he doesn't reckon it's a Paino built frame. Frank was so busy running his shop, that even if you bought a Paino, it wasn't necessarily his work. Could've be one of many Sydney builders, one being Geoff. He did build all of his earlier frames though, which is why I notice a lot of his frames have over the BB routing.
And since he was busy with the shop, he went a stickered everything an Ultima, or a Paino on the better frames, such as mine. Currently I do not know who the builder of this frame is, but it is of very high quality, and that's all that's important.
With the beam, it feels as if I was floating there on the saddle. An odd feeling at first, but the beam felt solid enough that it shouldn't break out of no where. So when going over bumpy roads, or off road(rocky clay), it is a very smooth feeling, at least that's where I'm sitting. For the really harsh and bumpy roads that's are full of cracks and holes, my arms and legs definitely feel the vibration, but my body doesn't. It is very similar to using your legs as suspension whilst slightly out of saddle, but the beam is doing the job for you.
This however, may begin a bad habit. When going over bumps and hard edges(driveways, etc) normally I would ease off my weight, and I know how hard I'm hitting the bump. With the Softride, I would barely be able to tell how I went over a bump. So I could have smashed the rim into the edge, and I probably wouldn't have felt it.
I'm not too sure if I'm bouncing whilst pedaling since it was only a short test ride today. Will have to give it another bunch of rides before I know.
Also, Geoff Scott has informed me that he doesn't reckon it's a Paino built frame. Frank was so busy running his shop, that even if you bought a Paino, it wasn't necessarily his work. Could've be one of many Sydney builders, one being Geoff. He did build all of his earlier frames though, which is why I notice a lot of his frames have over the BB routing.
And since he was busy with the shop, he went a stickered everything an Ultima, or a Paino on the better frames, such as mine. Currently I do not know who the builder of this frame is, but it is of very high quality, and that's all that's important.
VillaVelo, by the Vuong brothers
Blog: https://villaveloframes.wordpress.com/
FB & IG: @villaveloframes
Blog: https://villaveloframes.wordpress.com/
FB & IG: @villaveloframes
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Re: Paino Softride
Postby wqlava1 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:15 pm
It's a pretty early beam if it still has the Allsop name on it. They swapped to just Softride branding later.
After you have got the seat to the right angle, distance back and the beam at the right angle, measure the distance from the closest point on the rear tyre to the underside of the rear of the beam. If you ever take the bike in a car or transport it by air or lend it to anyone else you'll want that measurement to avoid the stuffing around again.
It takes hundreds of km till you get a nice circular pedalling motion that doesn't have the seat rising and falling too much. Some people say that it then helps your efficiency when you get back on your other bikes - I don't know.
After you have got the seat to the right angle, distance back and the beam at the right angle, measure the distance from the closest point on the rear tyre to the underside of the rear of the beam. If you ever take the bike in a car or transport it by air or lend it to anyone else you'll want that measurement to avoid the stuffing around again.
It takes hundreds of km till you get a nice circular pedalling motion that doesn't have the seat rising and falling too much. Some people say that it then helps your efficiency when you get back on your other bikes - I don't know.
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Re: Paino Softride
Postby Uncle Just » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:54 pm
One memory of this aberration in cycling design is the World Police Games held at Sandown race course circa early- mid 90s and watching a competitor bounce his way down the main straight on a Softride bike a long way behind the main bunch.
I also remember a female colleague once had her attention caught rather sharply by the exaggerated beam protruding from the seated rider in an ad from a cycle mag I was reading at work. I reassured her of its proper function and that it was not something that should cause alarm to one so well bred.
I also remember a female colleague once had her attention caught rather sharply by the exaggerated beam protruding from the seated rider in an ad from a cycle mag I was reading at work. I reassured her of its proper function and that it was not something that should cause alarm to one so well bred.
- metalrideroz
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Re: Paino Softride
Postby metalrideroz » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:42 pm
Good work QV. Planet X had some older style narrow tyres but it looks like theres only blue left, http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYGOIKFT/g ... lding-tyre" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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