Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

zebee
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Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby zebee » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:59 am

http://www.yoursayinnerwest.com.au/lily ... bike-route

separated path pretty well all the way from Hawthorn Pde to Victoria Road. With priority at intersections unlike Carrington St.

I don't use that road, so no idea if it's a good idea or not. There's a fair hill there isn't there? I see speed differential on the path was raised as a problem, but I don't think it was properly addressed.

tubby74
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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby tubby74 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:41 pm

its pretty easy to be doing 50+ down that hill as its a long steady slope. no way in hell do I want to be that close to people flying down the hill when I'm grinding up there. Also if they do this it would suggest that there's been zero consideration again to anything through the rail yards as part of westconnex, which would be far safer and remove the climb up as you go citybound. A nice flat route would make the route far more attractive to more casual riders. This looks like a need to do something even if its not a good something

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find_bruce
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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby find_bruce » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:10 pm

I could use Lilyfield Road, but I choose not to because of safety concerns. There are some very positive aspects of the plan
  • A separated path from the bay run & Hawthorn Canal through to Anzac Bridge will significantly increase the number of cyclists from the area
  • There are plenty of easy ways to get to Lilyfield Road
  • The one way sections will reduce some of the problem traffic, mainly in the afternoon
  • A separated path up the hill won't make the hill any easier, but it will reduce the concern inexperienced riders have when riding slowly
  • The stretch of path on the south side eliminates most of the left hooks eastbound, ie Grove St through to Gordon St
That said, I do have a couple of concerns. As tubby says, that speed differential on a shared path will be problematic - there are already issues on the Anzac Bridge & that is a lesser grade & wider path.

Separated paths are great when they are separated, not so good when they are regularly interrupted by driveways as every driveway becomes an uncontrolled intersection - this is particularly the stretch between Rayner St, Balmain Road & Edward St- the path is designed for cars to give way, but experience of Bourke St is that they rarely even slow down before crossing the paths.

It seems unduly optimistic to suggest cyclists will have priority at intersections with traffic lights - ie Mary St & Balmain Rd - the experience at Union St & elsewhere suggests that cyclists will get a green for 6 seconds every 2 minutes, will sporadically detect bicycles & the timings will ensure that most cyclists get a red wave. Because you know cars getting to we$tconne$$ are far more important

I am dubious about the U bends at intersections, eg Maliyawul (bottom of hill), Rayner St Catherine St. Also it is not clear what they are proposing for the intersection with Gordon St.

Call me cynical, but given the poor implementation of the bike path at the Bay Run by the former Leichardt clowncil, none of which seems to have been improved since the merger, we can look forward to a radar based sign & an advisory speed of 10 km/h - yep thats what these idiots think is the maximum appropriate speed for a bike.

Be interested to hear what Bob Moore's thoughts are.

roberto73
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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby roberto73 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:45 pm

That's similar to how I see it too, has some good parts and some bad. Particularly bad as most seem to say is the two way cyclepath down the steep hill to the canal. They have increased the width of this section of path to 2.8 m, 1.6 up, 1.2 down. Still too narrow, or just the wrong treatment. The bi-Di is still only 2.4 m wide between Balmain Rd and Gordon St by the looks, unfortunately they didn't include a cross section in the plan online. Also bad is the blind corner at Gordon St. And the bend out at Mayawul St, directing fast downhill cyclists towards exiting traffic!

Agree about the best option being through the Railyard, from Justin St, which is being proposed by Westconnex in its Active Transport Strategy. Might take some years though, Council reckons 10. But the route is cleared now, could just whack something in now almost. The full CityWestCycle Link chiselled out on one side of the cutting under Balmain Rd and Norton St would be even better, which Westconnex gives a mention too, and Innerwest Council supports in principle. Westconnex will have plenty of heavy machinery nearby soon, assuming it gets the go ahead. Lilyfield Rd cycleway would be completely unnecessary in that case.

Because they are making sections of LF Rd one way and taking out parking on one side in others (check the plan on Yoursay Innerwest) there is actually room for good bike lanes along most of the road, and some finangling could get the rest too, which would suit fast commuters and "new" or the unsure cyclists better IMO. The only section where this might be inadvisable is the steep hill to the canal, where the present set up with an uphill wide bike lane and a share the lane downhill appears to be working well. It is just stubbornness to keep saying we must have separated paths everywhere,, surely safety and convenience also must be factored in. Anyone know of a bi-Di on a 10% gradient hill?

There is a drop in session at Orange Grove Public School on 12 December, 6 pm to 9pm, where you can see the plan and make comments via sticky notes on a giant aerial photo map. Not sure what they do with the notes, an assistant just peeled them off at the end of today's session, no system. Better to use the Yoursay web site to make comments or maybe email Innerwest councillors alerting them to your concerns.

If you think they should put up a "bike lane on both sides option" too, please say so loud and clear. By choosing only to do a bidirectional cycleway design they have tried to lock us in to the concept, but they have had to give up parking and make it one way in parts so now there is space for conventional bike lanes, which could have protective buffers as well.

Thanks if you get this far, a bit long. There is more on Sydney Cyclist, where I put up some cross sections.

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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby roberto73 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:36 pm

Calling cyclists in western suburbs (west of Leichhardt anyway) who commute to the City. Submissions on the Lilyfield Rd cycleway plan close on Feb 2 on yoursayinnerwest.com.au. Can do online or by email. Important that commuters west of Leichhardt put comments in, as most Leichhardt/ Balmain area cyclists probably don't use the road that much, having other ways to get to and from the City. Most would use Brenan St or Victoria Rd etc. The Inner West Council in its wisdom only advertised it locally, apart from a stall one day down at Hawthorne Canal, but I did a bike count one morning and asked where cyclists came from. Some from Parramatta, Concord, Fivedock, even Ryde, and some from Ashfield and Croydon Park. The detailed plans are also on yoursayinnerwest.com.au.

It's an expensive project with about $4.5 m allocated so far, so important to get it right. Narrow 2.4 m bidirectional cycleways just shouldn't cut it these days, and there is room for a wider path since they are removing parking in the middle section, and making it one way for cars in other sections, freeing up an entire lane, though the latest plan has half of that used up by green "Swales", and tree planting, to try to appease the locals.
More discussion on Sydneycyclist if you want to read further on what is proposed.

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goneriding
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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby goneriding » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:01 pm

For me the hill is the bigger inhibitor to people cycling over the lack of a bike lane. Whilst it is great to see the initiative of providing separated lanes, Lilyfield Rd isn't overly busy even during peak hour. It's more likely to turn into something like King St. The money would be better spent fixing up the shared path on Victoria Rd.
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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby Strawburger » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:26 pm

Ive just added 40 or so engineering comments to the have your say interactive map. To me it has had some thought put into it, but not extensive. It seems that a few non cyclists have had a crack at the layout.
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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby roberto73 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:32 pm

Straw burger, many cooks in the kitchen. tfNSW dumped the project on the Council, with big dollars, Council at first rather shocked, not prepared for such a big project, so sent it to a consultant. Consultant supposedly good at doing bi directional cycleways, as their head was involved with City of Sydney cycleway development. So locked in to bidirectional path from the start, which was unfortunate IMO.

First plan attracted major resident opposition on loss of car parking, so after a long delay of a year they have come back with the revised scheme. The residents keep their parking, at the expense of making sections one way, which residents still don't like.

Parking is removed on the south side from one section in the new plan, Justin St to Gordon St, but not from Balmain Rd to Justin St. They say parking is needed for light rail patrons, but Council has always said parking should be only for kiss and ride and disabled, which is already provided at Catherine St.

They will have to relocate the kerb anyway between Balmain Rd to Justin St, so it is going to be a very expensive car park. If parking was banned, easy and cheaper to get a good 3 m bike path.

Hope a few more people might get on to the yousayinnerwest site and push this a bit. Some interesting comments up now, worth a peruse. Quite a few opposing the "crossover" point at Edwards St, saying why not have the crossover at Balmain Rd where most cyclists have to stop for the lights anyway. They could install advance storage boxes to facilitate right turns onto the cycleway.

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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby roberto73 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:22 pm

Update:
The residents seem to have scuppered the project, after an overwhelming majority of comments on the second version of the cycleway were negative. The main objections were to the proposal to make Lilyfield Rd one way east in two sections. This saved resident parking spots and allowed space for a cycleway but residents didn't want to lose the convenience of the left turn off Victoria Rd. Many cyclists also didn't like various aspects of the cycleway.

So Inner West Council decided in March to "not proceed to detailed design" for the cycleway. Instead they are going to get the consultant to have another go at coming up with something workable. The Mayor is saying he will call a public meeting, but this is likely to just be an anti cyclist rally. Better to sit down with cycling groups and see if there are alternatives, including other routes, and what bits of the rejected concept can be salvaged, like removing the parking (largely for boats and trailers) between Balmain Rd and Gordon St. We are proposing an alternative route via Canal Rd, Francis St and Allen St, (then on to Moore St and Catherine St) which has an easy gradient more suitable for many of the new cyclists they say they are trying to attract to commuting. Allen St has a high priority in the Bike Plan and would have been done soon anyway. It also gets cyclists closer to shops and cafes etc in Norton St, and the secondary college, so is IMHO quite a good alternative. Not as direct or quick as Lilyfield Rd but faster or stronger or less risk averse cyclists, whatever you want to call them, can still use LF Rd.

Any support for this welcome, email the Mayor (Lab) at Darcy.byrne@innerwest.nsw.gov.au, and greens at rochelle.porteus@ditto
Cc info@bikeleichhardt.org

Also come to the meeting when it is announced.

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grimbo
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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby grimbo » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:36 pm

roberto73 wrote:Update:
The residents seem to have scuppered the project, after an overwhelming majority of comments on the second version of the cycleway were negative. The main objections were to the proposal to make Lilyfield Rd one way east in two sections. This saved resident parking spots and allowed space for a cycleway but residents didn't want to lose the convenience of the left turn off Victoria Rd. Many cyclists also didn't like various aspects of the cycleway.

So Inner West Council decided in March to "not proceed to detailed design" for the cycleway. Instead they are going to get the consultant to have another go at coming up with something workable. The Mayor is saying he will call a public meeting, but this is likely to just be an anti cyclist rally. Better to sit down with cycling groups and see if there are alternatives, including other routes, and what bits of the rejected concept can be salvaged, like removing the parking (largely for boats and trailers) between Balmain Rd and Gordon St. We are proposing an alternative route via Canal Rd, Francis St and Allen St, (then on to Moore St and Catherine St) which has an easy gradient more suitable for many of the new cyclists they say they are trying to attract to commuting. Allen St has a high priority in the Bike Plan and would have been done soon anyway. It also gets cyclists closer to shops and cafes etc in Norton St, and the secondary college, so is IMHO quite a good alternative. Not as direct or quick as Lilyfield Rd but faster or stronger or less risk averse cyclists, whatever you want to call them, can still use LF Rd.

Any support for this welcome, email the Mayor (Lab) at Darcy.byrne@innerwest.nsw.gov.au, and greens at rochelle.porteus@ditto
Cc info@bikeleichhardt.org

Also come to the meeting when it is announced.


Getting some good cycling infra on those roads would be great, especially if it includes some decent crossings of Norton st and Foster/Darley. My kids used to cycle to school along Allen St, and the Norton/Darley st crossings and Allen St itself are full of busy impatient traffic.

But it would be a pretty big diversion for commuters who connect with the bay run, and I would guess it would not see much usage by that traffic, except maybe the very timid.
"If I can bicycle, I bicycle" ~David Attenborough

roberto73
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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby roberto73 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:02 pm

"But it would be a pretty big diversion for commuters who connect with the bay run, and I would guess it would not see much usage by that traffic, except maybe the very timid."

Existing commuters or newer converts who can cope with the steep uphill from the Bay Run can continue to use Lilyfield Rd, and we are still after some improvements to Lilyfield Rd. The "timid" or less fit, older, younger, cargo bikes etc can use the alternatives suggested. They are longer but if you want a better gradient that's what happens. Could also go up via Leichhardt Aquatic Centre (aka the pool) and Mary St, Church St, but can be congested around the pool car park.

TfNSW and Council are saying about the proposed cycleway they want to get more people commuting, but this is more likely if there is an easier way up Lilyfield ridge. Maybe a big signboard at foot of Lilyfield Rd pointing out options?

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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby find_bruce » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:17 pm

All of which reinforces why they should have put a path alongside the light rail - no gradient or intersections to contend with.

Yes I know I'm talking to the converted

roberto73
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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby roberto73 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:33 pm

Since the public meeting in May, where the Cycleway as proposed was “shelved”, the Council has said they would do a review of the project, including a look at the alternative routes on Allen and Francis we proposed. Construction funding from RMS has been removed but there was some money we thought for the review. At the Bicycle Working Group meeting in June, minutes on the Council website, they said they would let tenders for the review. But the other day it came to light they may just scrap the whole thing.

That would be reneging on their earlier commitment. I reckon the council could come up with some inexpensive improvements themselves, along the lines we have suggested. No need for expensive consultants. But the Council is in a mess since the amalgamation, their IT is stuffed, staff are leaving, integrated plans havnt been done, Westconnex has sucked the energy of planners, etc etc, but that was just one staffers big moan to us the other day.

Lilyresi
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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby Lilyresi » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:55 pm

So there have been surveyors working constantly at night along the Norton St end of Lilyfield Rd of late. All they say is that they are contracted by RMS. Surveying the northern side of the road by say and the southern side by night. Any thoughts?

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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby roberto73 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:10 pm

The surveyors might be for Westconnex, or maybe there is a plan to widen the City West Link, or just maybe they are surveying for a path along the soundwall that the council is investigating. Mystery.

Big news is that the Mayor, Darcy Byrnes, has referred the Lilyfield Rd Cycleway project to the council’s independent Ombudsman and the audit committee for investigation. He is claiming the administrator who was in charge before the council amalgamation wasn’t keeping a close eye on the project and there is nothing to see for $500K spent on the consultant. See Innerwest Courier on Nov 7, or Mayors Facebook page.

Council staff were just finalising a brief for a new tender for the project. Don’t know if that will go ahead now.

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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby roberto73 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:26 pm

find_bruce wrote:All of which reinforces why they should have put a path alongside the light rail - no gradient or intersections to contend with.

Yes I know I'm talking to the converted


Well, Council has actually backed the City West Cycle Link concept (citywestcyclelink.org.au)for such a path next to the rail line. They are seeking talks with Transport for NSW and others to discuss this. They even hinted they might consider a direct tunnel under Lilyfield, instead of the half tunnel chewed out of the side of the railway cutting that the CWCL proposes. This would have the benefit of not having to close the railway at any time, and not affect the station at Leichhardt North etc. Some examples of bicycle tunnels around the world, but often in conjunction with a road tunnel or an old railway tunnel.

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Re: Lilyfield Rd proposed separated route

Postby roberto73 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:43 am

Two items on the Council Meeting on Tuesday about LFRd.
One, a report on the history of the shelved report, item 4, and two, item 11, a motion to allow parking of motor vehicles only along the railway side, to get rid of the boats and trailers using the section between Denison St and just short of Catherine St. If passed this would preclude use of the kerb lane width to find space for a wide path or bike lanes.
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